Why It's Rude to Suck at Warcraft

Mirrored🔺
Mirrored🔺

As the original author of WeakAuras, I never expected it to become such a pervasive (and perhaps controversial) piece of paratext in relation to WoW.

Vor 2 Monate
Glenn Rinehart
Glenn Rinehart

What's done is done, at least it's free, thanks for that

Vor 5 Tage
beeman4266
beeman4266

@Sonnabend00 How to say you're bad at wow without saying you're bad at wow. Just get good

Vor 14 Tage
beeman4266
beeman4266

@Mirrored🔺  I've seen you around on reddit a few times, weakauras have undoubtedly improved the game imo. I definitely couldn't play balance druid without them, it just makes tracking everything so much easier without having to use a bunch of different add-ons haphazardly mixed together. I'm continually impressed by the flexibility of weakauras, game changing.

Vor 14 Tage
Spacemancer
Spacemancer

you should have never made it

Vor 18 Tage
ヒッキ
ヒッキ

Hallowed be thy name, my savior.

Vor 27 Tage
FERRIS WHEEL
FERRIS WHEEL

i’ve always described my aversion to multiplayer team games as “i was bad at sports in middle school and got yelled at by my teammates for it, and i don’t have a strong desire to relive it”. all that to say that this video is so real to my experience not just with WoW but multiplayer team games as a whole.

Vor 2 Monate
Josué Morales Domínguez
Josué Morales Domínguez

I played Overwatch, but quit because of how often someone would start yelling like an idiot if the team was losing. I think that, for people who play for fun and don't care too much about winning, online games only work with friends.

Vor 18 Tage
Guilherme sampaio de oliveira
Guilherme sampaio de oliveira

My problem is that i usually hate my team members for their incompetence so i seek sola multiplayer.

Vor 22 Tage
Achi1187
Achi1187

@Ramsay Bolton the thing is though, the toxic players I dealt with weren’t bothered by a lack of “desire to learn or pay attention” from their teammates. Most of the time, they weren’t even the best players on the team. They just behaved erratically and killed morale if one bad engagement happened or if the jungler made a mistake or something. And I rarely even played ranked mode so it’s not like anything was even at stake

Vor 28 Tage
Raz Arac
Raz Arac

@banjiepixel About why a lot of people play team-based competitive games:- first, a lot of games cannot or do not exist in 1v1 format ( only ones that come to mind are fighting games , Scarcraft and some card games ); MOBAs and Fps do not work without teams -second, team based games make for more complex systems and situations both because of the games themselves or because of the number of brains that are in play ; its not necessarly better but it reduces the impression of repetition -third, and that ties in with this idea, 1v1 games usually make the need for individual training seem more apparent than in team games , which discourages some people as they are confronted more with their shortcomings in execution/mecanical skills and knowledge than in a situation where their team can make up for it also its just fun to share a struggle with some people, encouraging each other and pulling through.

Vor 29 Tage
Bob Nemel
Bob Nemel

@Seizure nah fighting game players can be plenty toxic, I know from experience

Vor Monat
Anders Milling
Anders Milling

Having recently introduced my GF to wow really opened my eyes to how much blizzard doesn't explain about wow. So many things are so backed into my being from playing since late vanilla, but to her it's all new. It seems super daunting for new players.

Vor 2 Monate
asmRTPOP
asmRTPOP

Recently got my SO into WoW as well and for this reason we’ve been enjoying Classic vanilla.

Vor Monat
Millennial Caveman
Millennial Caveman

I remember me and my friends laughing our heads off when we as rogues stealthed our way from the dwarven starting area to Iron Forge before finishing the starting area quest. We felt like we got one over on the game. That was a decade ago. Such a simpler time.

Vor 2 Monate
giascle
giascle

As someone who has never played WoW, my biggest takeaway from this vid is "wait, it's not SUPPOSED to look like that?"

Vor 2 Monate
Eric Hall
Eric Hall

I’m general you want as little UI as you can while still having all the info you need. Back in the day players crammed thier screen with it but also there was a lot less to need to see back then. Mechanics have gotten to the point now where you need to see as much of the screen as possible

Vor 15 Tage
Eric Hall
Eric Hall

The irony is a lot of players don’t have a shit ton of ui

Vor Monat
ChocoRokk
ChocoRokk

The plot twist is that the game is quite beautiful under all that UI.

Vor Monat
squigglytext
squigglytext

I love this topic You might enjoy Lauren B. Collister's paper(s). She has written about how discourse and identity play into these topics. My fav paper of hers is "At least I'm not Chinese, gay, or female: marginalized voices in World of Warcraft" It's I think a great addition to this video!

Vor 2 Monate
squigglytext
squigglytext

@Rafael Toshio Rama Yamamoto I do not beleive that is the primary claim of the paper! Instead it looks into the stigmas that exist in the community, and how that effects how players communicate (though make sure to consider it in the time, the mmo space of 2022 is different than qhen it was written, I imagine!)

Vor Monat
Rafael Toshio Rama Yamamoto
Rafael Toshio Rama Yamamoto

The chinese suck at Warcraft? In the RPG I play they're top players.

Vor Monat
yo mamma
yo mamma

I work as an agricultural extension officer and holy shit, the similarity between the problems outlined here and the problems surrounding adoption of best practice in the agricultural industry are mind blowing. Truly, this video is just shining a light on human nature

Vor 2 Monate
Sarah Nightmare
Sarah Nightmare

Culture is a social construct, not biological, so I disagree on your idea that it is human nature. These problems of optimization are a part of (unregulated) capitalism/materialism and not found universally among other cultures. Not all WoW players are climbing the tier hierarchy and there are groups that assist players with a lower ilvl in gaining mounts/achievements through cooperation. Some of these cooperative groups are a bit predatory as people must pay money to get boosted. Pay to win is a product of capitalism after all. If you are not in a top guild it will be more difficult to get to the top tier than solo. So in the nature vs nurture argument I'd say is more on the nurture side. As for the best practices in agriculture under capitalism, I'm sure "best" coincides with "most profitable." There are other cultures that do things differently such as one that believes paper currency is evil and wont trade food/livestock for money. But with imperialism being forced they didn't have a choice and so some are not baptized since the one dealing with the paper money will go to hell. The book about this is called The Devil and Commodity Fetishism in South America.

Vor 14 Tage
The86Ripper
The86Ripper

Give people a chance to optimize something and make a statistic out of it and they are *guaranteed* to ruin it.

Vor 25 Tage
Melesniannon
Melesniannon

That's circular and therefor meaningless. If the best thing is whatever you want then to say you want the best is merely to say you want what you want.

Vor Monat
Arthur Schopenhauer
Arthur Schopenhauer

There’s no such thing as best practice in any context, right and wrong and good and bad are fantasies, best is whatever you want at that moment

Vor Monat
Melesniannon
Melesniannon

@BINARYGOD Well that's an interesting statement isn't it. What is exactly the definition of "human nature", if not a trait that we believe people abundantly have in common?

Vor Monat
Radical centrist
Radical centrist

I've said before that multiplayer games are only fun when they're new, fresh and no one knows how to play them yet. After a while, meta slave elitists appear and they chase the fun away, they're not nice people to play with and they forget that they're just playing a game.

Vor Monat
superarisu
superarisu

I listened to this essay while playing FFXIV, and those who know know the similarities and differences -- knowing the "preferred" or most efficient way to clear a dungeon and the textbook vs. efficient way to handle certain types of mechanics is something you have to know, and woe betide you if you are not playing that way. Being in a raid static strikes me as the most stressful and unfun thing for these reasons, and while I think FFXIV is very slowly making allowances for people who don't want to grind high end content with a group of people that demands flawless DPS uptime and mechanics knowledge, I don't know that any game extends all of its content to all types of players, ala the RPer who refused to wear foot armor. I 100% respect the RPer's right to exist and be in the game as they wish, but I personally would not want to be randomly matched with this person in a dungeon queue and then struggle for 30 minutes because one member is significantly undergeared and mobs go through them like wet paper (FFXIV heads know that item levels are in place to prevent stuff like this, but you can still feel a difference between level 50 players with average gear vs level 60 players with good gear even under level caps). Every type of play style is not appropriate for every type of content. Part of me thinks, "why not? You should be able to experience content at the pace and in the way that works best for you" but on the other hand, this is a multi-player game, and play styles inevitably seem to conflict with one another and with aspects of the game itself. The solution seems to be to find the group of people that is playing the game the same way you play it -- the poor hobbit RPer really needed to be in an RP group -- but I say this as someone who has bounced in and out of FFXIV FCs for years and plays solo now. Why can't I find a group that works for me? And if I can't, how can I prescribe it for anyone else? The devs can give me new modes and ways to find people, but it can't make us work together in a mutually pleasing way. FFXIV has taken a stand on the add-ons issue by universally frowning on them, but it is an open secret that they exist, and the high-key raid static types are definitely using them as the WoW analysts do to monitor their own (and others') DPS. I personally don't find raid add-ons important because I am not playing that way and end up skipping that kind of content because that kind of person is deeply unpleasant to me... but then I started thinking about the other kinds of add-ons for crafting and inventory management, something that sometimes I feel like I spend as much time on as actual killing things, and then I feel a little bit differently. Would you say that managing the prices of items I have for sale in the community market and for determining how much of certain mats I have on hand vs. are needed for specified crafting is different than the raid-specific add-ons? In FFXIV devs' mind, they are equal, and I suppose if they permitted one type, there would be pressure to permit them all, or a game of whack-a-mole would be touched off in which "bad" add-ons would be snuck into the game masquerading as "good" add-ons, and that way lies madness. Either way, same as in WoW, if you are into bleeding edge, first-clearing content and chasing maximum efficiency, you need the tools to do that and be on that level. Someone may comment to this and say "it's not like that at all, you can be in a static and get clears with good communication and teamwork, no add-ons required" but I think that underline's the video's point that this things are in the air when you think about and talk about the fine points of the game -- the paratext -- regardless of developer intent. FFXIV tends to be seen as a success and a step or more beyond WoW in some ways, but it was fascinating to me to learn about how similar their play experiences ultimately are. Thank you.

Vor Monat
Civil Chev
Civil Chev

I feel like FFXIV is having the opposite problem. They are smart to continue to say "no" to addons but they are simultaneously making changes to the game that makes mandatory content easier and easier with each patch/expansion. The skill gap between casuals and players who engage in optional content is staggering which creates a different kind of toxic environment where sandbagging in an expert roulette is fine because we're not allowed to explain the DPS loss since we can't have those numbers without using addons. There are only two solutions: The first is for the devs to start making mandatory content require skill again, which risks alienating a big portion of the player base that only gets bigger which each expansion. The second option is to create a separate roulette that prevents players who want to blitz from being paired with players who can't. The issue with that is without good players to, potentially, give advice and aspire casuals to take the game a little more seriously, the casuals would be stuck in an endless cycle of only getting paired with likeminded individuals which will make their chances of getting better at the game to 0.

Vor Monat
Tamlinearthly
Tamlinearthly

Feels relevant: Countless years ago, in the earliest days of Vanilla WoW, I'm just poking around somewhat aimlessly killing Troggs for a quest that was taking just forever, and some wandering Warrior I don't know suggests we party up and kill them faster. All well and good, but then he tells me, "You take Aggro." So I ask him, "What's Aggro mean?" I had never heard the word before--never played an MMO before, in fact. He was totally incredulous, but after some prodding he explained the meaning of the term and why it made sense for me to do it, which it did; we killed some bad guys, finished out the quest, and all was well. Or so I thought. Literally YEARS later there's a thread on Blizzard's WoW forum asking what's the worst party you've ever been in in the game, and sure enough, some Warrior stops long enough to pipe in, "Oh man, I met a Paladin once who didn't even know what Aggro was." They're going to carve this on my tombstone, just you wait and see.

Vor 2 Monate
Clinton Leonard
Clinton Leonard

That's not toxic at all, he didn't get mad at you, and he actually taught you. Only mentioned you later to his friends so they could get a kick out of it. Sounds like an awesome guy.

Vor 11 Tage
Nyanko
Nyanko

I’d be more embarrassed about telling people you actually played Paladin :o

Vor Monat
Peek-a-Boo
Peek-a-Boo

I don't understand why they take the time to insult but not explain, when the latter takes less effort.

Vor Monat
Bored Allosaurus
Bored Allosaurus

@Alex .T Don't you know? these days you're expected to 100% know everything about every part of the game as soon as you login! no new experiences or first time wonderment allowed! going into a new dungeon? You better youtube it beforehand you scrub! you're not allowed to experience anything for yourself anymore.

Vor Monat
Craigs List
Craigs List

@asmRTPOP everyone has been in that scenario if they played OW. That's the game's fault primarily, and ironically it's as much his fault as the other players' for having that experience. He is the other half of that fight, and usually they're both wrong. I don't play it anymore but you watch the fight happen over and over in OW matches. The real culprit is blizzard, it's a trash company.

Vor Monat
Brandon Mead
Brandon Mead

I had, I feel, a similar experience with league of legends. I was never great but I was decent and reliable with some characters, but whenever I had an off game or underperformed because I was experimenting with a new character, the experience became stressful and toxic. It felt like I had to perform at a certain level to get to have any fun, and eventually the need to perform- and stress over the reaction of teammates if I didn't- at that level overrode any sense of fun there could have been.

Vor Monat
EQOAnostalgia
EQOAnostalgia

Mobas are literally the worst. I was playing HoTs against the f'ing A.I. . . and someone tried to tell me which talents to take at the start of a match, i just said "LOL" quit the match, came back 10 minutes later, caught the last few seconds and got my rewards. Then i disabled all communication, i do what i want, learn at my own pace... if some tryhard idiot whines, i don't know a dayum thang lol. FK EM!

Vor 4 Tage
Loftus
Loftus

Truly excellent video. I’ve been playing WoW since 2005 and saw most of these changes first hand. You do a great job laying out the changes and how they progressed throughout the life of WoW. That’s tough to see when you are immersed in the game experience. Great job. This must have taken a LONG time to make.

Vor 2 Monate
WalterGM
WalterGM

Best video about the current state of WoW I’ve ever seen. Thank you for putting to words what I’ve been feeling for the last 5 years.

Vor 2 Monate
Zera Zalani
Zera Zalani

Back in vanilla with my original guild the introduction of damage meters ruined us because we realized more than half the raid was dogshit. The guild fell apart shortly after when we pushed fun out of the raid. We realized that we only had like 15 guildmates that were good at their class and couldn't even fill a raid group. Even though I've always been a tryhard and min max how I play my classes being expected to do so ruined the game for me too looking back. I developed performance anxiety and I quit raiding altogether somewhere in WotLK. Also made me realize how I hate convoluted boss mechanics and wipes mechanics. I like to min max my own performance but I don't seem to enjoy min maxing encounters at all. As soon as the social contract took for granted that you had to study raids and play simon says with DBM for bosses I lost all interest. That combined with the fact that seeing a number go up does nothing to me. I am completely uninterested in the gear treadmill so this is obviously a problem considering how the entire game revolves around acquiring gear. I came back to WoW with the explicit intent to be a casual powerscrub in Dragonflight. Meaning I will not run any raids nor any Mythic +. I'll gear up through crafting and mostly just do BGs and help people run heroics or normals. I want no part in this stupid ass race people have going on in M+ trying to skip half the dungeon.

Vor 2 Monate
AverageDrafter
AverageDrafter

In Mario Kart, while I was hugging curves and defending my lead my son decided to ram his kart in front of a stage full of Koompas dancing, throw down the controller, jump up, shake his ass shouting "Woo Hoo! Yeah! Let's Party!". I've never been more pwnd in my whole life. Not only was I playing THIS game incorrectly, I was playing EVERY game incorrectly. GG son.

Vor 2 Monate
arisumego
arisumego

Holy shit this is one of my favorite YouTube comments ever. I wish my dad were this cool and loving

Vor 4 Tage
Joralion
Joralion

@StealthMarmot Not to discourage players who use optimal strategies in games. If you enjoy games by playing that way, go ahead.

Vor 22 Tage
Rico Sanchez
Rico Sanchez

@WhiteMoose even if it was made up, what would lead you to think that. its a fun wholesome story, and personally, my nephew does things just like that. In fact, as i read it, i 100% was able to see my nephew doing the same thing. He has done very similar things, especially the WOOHOO LETS PARTY! vibes lol kids have a way of opening you up to the less stressful views on life

Vor 2 Monate
suha
suha

@WhiteMoose literally what about this story is in any way exceptional or unusual

Vor 2 Monate
WhiteMoose
WhiteMoose

Ill take an exaggerated and possibly made up story for 500 Regis

Vor 2 Monate
Levi Boullion
Levi Boullion

I absolutely love this video and it's breadth and depth and well articulated points and it's well studied and cited sources. My only complaint is that there are quite a few clips of various speakers who refer to very advanced topics without defining/explaining them beforehand (ie. 21st raider, DBM, item level, vault, etc.) And then go on to exposit about these topics. If you're a seasoned wow player you understand the jargon but it's disheartening that I can't realistically send this beautiful video essay to anyone outside the wow community without them getting confused in the reeds of wow terminology.

Vor 2 Monate
Beefy Weefy
Beefy Weefy

I think one thing this video does not stress nearly enough is how easier it became to access WoW's para-text over the years. Early on Thottbot and Wowhead were either tedious to navigate to find specific information. Even more elusive were the tools to min-max your character, especially simulation. But over the years the industries around para-text have evolved, the incredulity with which Raidbots is presented in this video kind of undermines how easy and fast it is to use. Regional knowledge necessary to understanding instrumental play is extremely easy to access now. Class discords and Wowhead/Icy Veins are organized and usually concise and accurate enough to quickly educate someone on what choices are appropriate for instrumental play. But in the same token my judgement that the para-text is easy to access and understand is arbitrary. And I am buying into the belief that instrumental play is the only "correct" way to play, another arbitrary statement. I also feel like 'instrumental play' is far too broad of a term. People who raid semi hardcore or just push 8 M+ keys a week are not participating in the same level of play that people playing for CE or push keys are. I know that's an obvious statement, but in a lot of ways people who are playing 'semi hardcore' are playing more akin to free play than instrumental play. You could still get +20 keys done in S4 of SLands with an unoptimized and poorly played group. You just needed a basic level of game sense that is easily (arbitrary I know) obtained either through written guides or through YouTube/Twitch. Hardcore players, those that consume not only the para text but participate in its creation, are now playing in an extremely narrow instrumental play field. Hardcore players are running simulations not to make their character better, but to confirm what's best. Tier lists and other para text content, that may influence how a semi hardcore player participates in any season, aren't really applicable here at all. By the time world first race media comes out its either well known what's the best in each specific encounter and the real question becomes how to get people to the point of executing near perfection (baring the obvious exception of mythic final boss which has been hidden from testing for the last few seasons). The free play player that is brought up repeatedly in the video is so far removed and irrelevant to modern wow. People know casual world quest players exist, and role-players too, but they are essentially now playing a whole different game. If there is tension in modern wow, its between those that think they are participating in extremely limited instrumental play that requires them to stay within very narrow guidelines for success while they are really participating in much more forgiving free play content.

Vor Monat
GlowingBlueIris
GlowingBlueIris

I've never played WoW (& was only in Guild Wars for a couple months) but this is fascinating anyway. There are so many intricately made worlds & also group dramas I had no idea existed

Vor 2 Monate
drppenev
drppenev

Thank you for verbalising why I never got into WoW. You get absolute freedom to run around in an interesting fantasy world and players made it an office job with spreadsheets.

Vor Monat
Holidae
Holidae

@Esther Maier I think theyre saying they never got to "the good part" because they didn't enjoy the game, no matter how much people kept saying it gets good eventually.

Vor 2 Stunden
Maarten Neppelenbroek
Maarten Neppelenbroek

@Gerardo Diaz Kek

Vor 2 Tage
arisumego
arisumego

This is the reason why no matter how hard I tried I could never get into Eve online

Vor 4 Tage
Auralan
Auralan

@Ezekiel Johnson  It's not all that surprising that WoW feels generic at this point. Other games have been trying to emulate and kick it off its throne for well over 15 years now. Of course there's going to be a lot of similar stuff out there... As for not caring about the story, eh. It's still a role playing game with a large, active community invested into that story you "hear nobody talk about". If the sales of books, population numbers of RP realms and stuff like views on youtube lore channels are anything to go by, I'd say plenty of people care. Idk, I'm just 1 person playing the game on and off for 10 years now, even doing a bunch of fairly serious raiding for a few of those years. Never even once have I had to open a spreadsheet to clear a 25 man heroic / mythic while it's current. This video blows it way out of proportion. The game isn't that hard, unless you're world first clearing content while severely undergeared.

Vor 4 Tage
Dunkleham
Dunkleham

@Gerardo Diaz I'm not personally into Final Fantasy, but I can attest to the community's absolute hive mind mentality of inviting and seamlessly integrating new players

Vor 4 Tage
Kyle B
Kyle B

it's really cool that Dan has started making hours-long documentaries SPECIFICALLY for me, I appreciate that.

Vor 2 Monate
Lingr Icen
Lingr Icen

base comment

Vor 4 Tage
Nateman1000
Nateman1000

You need to be captured by the government and given complete invincibility so he has to make documentaries till the end of time

Vor Monat
David Sabillon
David Sabillon

😅

Vor Monat
Kyle Biemiller
Kyle Biemiller

Nice name, we have something in common.

Vor Monat
billyum braskey
billyum braskey

right lol

Vor 2 Monate
Nick Sullivan
Nick Sullivan

"Each video represents a brick in an echo chamber that carries a subtle yet deafening resonance" is a hell of a line

Vor 2 Monate
Clinton Leonard
Clinton Leonard

All in all it's just another brick in the wall. -Pink Floyd

Vor 11 Tage
SoundwaveAU
SoundwaveAU

Excellent video. Classic WoW is a beautiful thing, but what ultimately turned me away was the player base. Not only the practices described in the video, but the rampant gold buying to always be able to afford consumables or to do a GDKP run to ensure they can get their BIS. Just truly horrible stuff.

Vor Monat
Dmoney
Dmoney

These types of videos really make me think about the future of academia. Video essays like these are so exhaustive and well researched like a lot of academic scholarship, except people actually watch this. This isn’t to say academic papers are less useful (you need somewhere to get your information from and have it be accurate) but working in tandem with regular scholarship seems like a wonderful opportunity

Vor Monat
IHomie1
IHomie1

I have had two main experiences with WoW. The first was as a young kid who couldn't get a subscription, so I could only try out the free demo, and the second was in college trying to play with friends who were veteran players. When I was young, I wasn't any good at the demo, but I still felt a huge amount of wonder at all of the cool stuff you could get and explore, and I wished I could have played more. In college when I tried to play with my friends, they told me to use the max level boost, pick a healer since it would let us get into dungeons easier, and had me run through the first quests needed to play the first dungeon. I felt like I couldn't even stop to read the quest giver's text, and I only ended up playing a couple of days.

Vor 2 Monate
EQOAnostalgia
EQOAnostalgia

@Dermetsu I learned this lesson when playing with my wife. I used to be kinda tryhard lol. Now i understand the value in going slow, and letting someone else do the same. Only took idk 40 years? LOL!

Vor 5 Tage
Chris Woozy
Chris Woozy

Played from 2004 to 2013, and had the most/best memorable experience I’ve ever had in ANY video game, it was so chill, everyone was nice, the community was unbelievable, and doing the “little things” was fun…. I come back in 2022 and the game is pure sweaty, everyone gets upset, and group finder has pretty much ruined the community, and they reward everyone basically equally.. epics used to mean something, and I know times have changed, but damnnnnn 😔

Vor 8 Tage
Clinton Leonard
Clinton Leonard

Yeah, joining friends when they are good at a game is a recipe for not enjoying it. They get annoyed with you for wanting to just experience the game, which they all got to do.

Vor 11 Tage
The86Ripper
The86Ripper

Hahaha yeah the ''go go go'' mentality. Modern instances are fun when a tank rushes forwards and pulls everything. Dang i miss old wow.

Vor 25 Tage
vasudean
vasudean

@Harmony Allen I agree. I've only ever gotten booted once or twice, and that was because I kept dying. Usually during the last boss. Plus when I asked about the boss, they usually are nice enough to actually answer my question. In WoW, the guide during dungeons helps, but sometimes, the guide is vague and doesn't actually help all that much. Shining example was during the Underrot. I tried reading it, but save for one, maybe two bosses, they didn't tell you anything helpful on fighting it. We had to figure it out ourselves.

Vor Monat
Ronan
Ronan

hbomberguy, jenny, defuctland, and now folding ideas giving us hours long videos about stuff most of us weren't previously interested in but the execution is so good that it makes us invested. i cant wait to watch this!

Vor 2 Monate
Y0USEEMUPSET
Y0USEEMUPSET

Gotta include Shaun

Vor Monat
JB
JB

Ah yes hbomberguy, the most useless psudo intellectual on this platform.

Vor Monat
SeñorMeechio
SeñorMeechio

BobbyBroccoli definitely deserves credit for popularising this "compartmentalised timeline" presentation

Vor 2 Monate
Ro Morris
Ro Morris

Tim Rodgers Action Button Review season 1, the best 30 hours on games by weight, and they are WEIGHTY, laden with metaphor, meaning, metaphorical meaning, and meaningful metaphors.

Vor 2 Monate
rattyeely
rattyeely

OOF.MP3

Vor 2 Monate
Alexandre Ferreira
Alexandre Ferreira

Years ago I did a paper for college addressing the behavior of players behind an avatar, using world of warcraft as a field of study. I'm impressed that this topic is still relevant.

Vor 2 Monate
Dw3yN
Dw3yN

This video was so well made and researched. Even though i dont know jack about WoW or any MMOs whatsoever. I felt like the video was assuming all viewers would know how WoW works, so I felt a bit clueless at times. But the Theme of Instrumental and Free play in games was so interesting and well presented, I enjoyed it despite that!

Vor 2 Monate
Else Some
Else Some

What I find so brilliantly frustrating about this video is that I have never played WoW but everything it says about the WoW's community speaks to my experience in ttrpg's "meta" discussion circles. I think ttrpgs should be the sacred pastures of Wallace's and free play nonsense, but there is this ever increasing sense that if you don't internalize the instrumentalist attitude towards character building and optimization that you are the load everyone else at the table must carry. This is probably one of the reasons why I now lean more heavily towards the games where there is literally no ceiling to accommodate instrumental practices (so extremely rules-lite games) or where the instrumental practices are the Text of the game rather than mere paratext (killer dungeon crawls, where actual strategic logistics of the entire player team triumph over any individual character's abilities).

Vor 2 Monate
banjiepixel
banjiepixel

Part of the problem is how much these games are based on external feedback. People like Wallace do what they do for internal reasons, could be to just roleplay or to add little extra challenge to make things more fun. Hardcore WoW players seem to be 100% motivated by external reasons. This behaviour seems to be about extremely focused on things like ingame numbers, being part of the popular group, fame and I would assume also very heavily on money. Game communities where focus is on more heavily internal experience seem to be much more healthy. Being alone instead of part of a team helps alot actually because whole situation of someone playing the game "wrong" ruins the "correct" way to play or vice versa" just doesn't just happen. Actually in something like a fighing game, it is very possible that playing "wrong" can be a winning strategy because it can be something unexpected. Being able to adapt to anything is very important for high level player instead of repeating always same couple of strategies mindlessly and this allows alot of innovation and variation in competitive play. More heatlhy competitive WoW definitely would be possible in my opinion but it would need high level players not to be lazy and only care about external challenges and goals and instead to actually care about the internal challenges and goals as a player.

Vor 2 Monate
gnar
gnar

Showed this to a friend last night and we watched the entire thing in one sitting. Incredible video.

Vor 2 Monate
Simon Honey
Simon Honey

"Our definition of success in a game has created a disease of the mind and a pursuit of mechanical perfection that's killing the genre.. you're welcome." I'm probably going to be shouted down for it, but my view of success is dungeon delving and having a good time with friends. Enjoy yelling at each other for taking the imaginary wrong path.

Vor 2 Monate
BrianMW
BrianMW

Fantastic video, I really enjoyed it! I will say at one point they talked about how looking stuff up in wow wasn't considered cheating when doing the same with other games on sites like gamefaqs was considered cheating. I will say, that's not entirely true. Around the first expansion is when thottbott/wowhead became viewed as 'good.' Using thotbottt and addons in classic was actually considered cheating or a sign of a bad player. It was said if you used either, you weren't good enough to do stuff and you needed the crutches of addons/thotbott. I remember applying to guilds and you had to send them screenshots that proved you didn't use addons (which is funny because u could just delete them for the screenshot. It is true though that wow did adopt that stuff earlier than most games, which is interesting to think about. I think after wow's first expansion, it went from 'show me a screenshot to prove you don't use addons' to 'show me a screenshot to prove you do use addons'

Vor 2 Monate
banjiepixel
banjiepixel

Cheating is very complicated issue when comes to guides and others sources of information about what to do in the game. There are many people that view the first time playing blind with things like exploration and figuring out how to solve puzzles as the main game while for alot of people actually feel the real game starts when they know what to do and where to go because they like the execution of actions more than trying to figure out the correct actions. WoW could be said to have both types of people playing it and this can cause conflicts. My general opinion is that using information that some other players have collected and is being shared in form of something like a guide or wiki, is never cheating. Especially in context of online game like WoW where you are playing with other people that may have that same information and could share it with with you. This makes the information existing outside of the game in guide to become ingame information. Playing without all the extra information is a self-imposed challenge, actually pretty similar to playing shoeless character. Problem of common acceptance of crazy addon shenanigans is connected to the tradition of modding games on pc but I really don't see how are these addons supposed to make the game better. It all seems to just about taking shortcuts in places where being good at playing the actual game would had mattered. Usually when modded version is used for serious/competitive play, it is to have fixed version of the original game that would function better as a competitive experience. Lowering the skill ceiling of the game with addons seems exact opposite of what hardcore/competitive players should want.

Vor 2 Monate
Fishwalk
Fishwalk

I remember this dumb as hell DK build I used at the beginning of WotlK that involved dual wielding two fast attack speed weapons to proc free casts of howling blast. IIRC, the proc wasn't on a timer and it also ignored the global cooldown. The rest of the gear was trivial, and even the weapon damage was trivial. The only thing that mattered was attack speed. I read about the build on elitistjerks and used it early. Shocked everyone in the raid by doing more than half of the raid's damage alone. It then became an expectation for other DKs to roll this stupid build. Thankfully, it was patched quickly.

Vor Monat
MyLaptopSucks
MyLaptopSucks

I still remember the first time I realized that the community was going to kill Classic WoW. I was playing some AV on the Alliance side, and for once, we were winning. People in chat were complaining about this, actively encouraging us to lose and do worse so they could continue farming honor. When we got pushed back towards Dun Baldar, the people in the chat were celebrating the game going into an unfun, endless grind between the two armies. They weren't playing for fun. They weren't playing to win. They were playing to lose in a slow, unfun, unengaging way, simply because it was the ideal way to farm honor. I unironically, genuinely, cannot understand why'd you want to waste your time on Earth doing that. Deliberately losing at a game over the course of hours, just to get marginally more honor than you would by playing seriously and actually having fun.

Vor 2 Monate
masterplusmargarita
masterplusmargarita

@MD D That famous "players will optimize the fun out of a game" quote starts with three words that are often skipped but I think are really important - "given the opportunity". It's the dev's responsibility to design a game where the optimal way to play is also a fun way to play. Why is a boring loss in AV more efficient for an honor grind than an exciting win? That shouldn't be that way! I don't know the first thing about the game mode, so I don't know if this makes sense, but maybe give the winning side an honor multiplier based on how quickly the are able to win, so that whichever side is winning is encouraged to play fast and aggressively. You get the point - make fun play be a better way of grinding. While I get being frustrated at players who essentially force everyone to play in an unfun way because it's optimal, it's on the devs to build a system where that can't happen.

Vor Tag
Tim Arsenault
Tim Arsenault

Those people optimally rush through everything and then complain they have nothing to do. Meanwhile, I much prefer the journey over the destination.

Vor 8 Tage
Newbie Tricki
Newbie Tricki

this. this is why I hate most MMO nowadays people tends effecient the fun out of them playing MMO in back in the day was about socializing now its about minmaxing.

Vor 16 Tage
silver2zilver
silver2zilver

This is EXACTLY my experience. The worst part is, we became like them.

Vor 19 Tage
The86Ripper
The86Ripper

@MD D I can promise you people will never understand how many of wow's issues derrive from bad/negligent design. The are always gonna blame players, and thats a given. Its a waste of breath pointing out the game's flaws that have been going strong for a while. Design in a video game makes all the difference and can actively prevent about 80% of the issues in it.

Vor 25 Tage
Kevin McGovern
Kevin McGovern

I tried Classic and was absolutely one of those "got to level 42 and then never played again" types - and then I tried Shadowlands, and I gave it up before the end of 2021. Tbf part of the issue is that I was looking for a more casual experience than my friends were, which meant that everyone in our guild was also looking to stay at the bleeding edge of available gear. I mean we were still fairly casual - no first in server anything, not everyone had even 1 BIS item - and all of my guildies were very nice, I just kept feeling like I was dragging the group down but also didn't care enough to put in the 10-15 hours of grinding to catch up. Which is to say that some things in the video went over my head, or I simply don't have the breadth of experience to validate them, but I do know about getting yelled at for not knowing dungeon mechanics like the back of my hand, shamed (lightly/sarcastically) for not maxing my mythics for the vault, and feeling that dungeons became a competition once I had a damage meter add on installed. It wasn't that playing felt like it was becoming a chore, but that everything I had to do inherently carried the risk of doing it "wrong" or "not well enough" and getting flamed for it. Made playing exhausting and so I dropped it.

Vor Monat
glupik
glupik

As an anthropologist who's been trying to convince academia of the relevance and importance of 'virtual' worlds this video is so cool. It's satisfying but also a little bit sad how we all have only a handful of references that we circle around.

Vor 2 Monate
Alec West
Alec West

@Arthur Schopenhauer the fundamental goal of anthropology is the understanding of human societies, and that goal requires study of all types of human societies and behaviors. Anthropology isn’t trying to make a list of “what do these people believe”, those data is the input of anthropology, which then constructs a deeper understanding of humanity by analysis of those data. Where those humans happen to live isn’t relevant, we’re all human and hence included within the scope of the field. Anthropology is a lot more than contacting uncontacted tribes, especially since many of them are uncontacted for their own good.

Vor 11 Tage
Ekki
Ekki

It always surprises me how policy design rarely seems to take the plethora of data we got from games in account. As a PhD bioinformaticist and hobby game dev it hurts to see such a waste of useful information. Hope you can push through! Academia sucks when you're trying to change it but it's often a change worth doing.

Vor 15 Tage
lively bangtan
lively bangtan

please check out Ciara Cremin and her work, especially the ones that cover videogames (like exploring videogames with deleuze and guattari)!!! she theorises about videogames in such an interesting way which also tackles a lot of issues surrounding it as well~

Vor 19 Tage
Arthur Schopenhauer
Arthur Schopenhauer

Isn’t the point of anthropology to learn about cultures? This is a trivial recreational activity in the developed western world, yet there are still people whose language and religion and way of life we know nothing about, that you think this deserves priority honestly seems a bit prejudiced

Vor Monat
BINARYGOD
BINARYGOD

@TheShanoGamer well the problem with that is that people will, even is very social virtual settings, not really be themselves (or more of themselves) in this setting vs the real world. Of course, the virtual world strongly affects the real one - so... maybe actually you need to look at both, not because one helps inform the other, but because you need both to understand all of reality.

Vor Monat
nick
nick

1:13:30 I remember getting Antorus curve on 6-8 fps during the Argus fight. With everything as low as possible, except projected textures, because you need that to see the aoes. Good stuff.

Vor Monat
PresidentGuile
PresidentGuile

As much as I love your content, the reason I follow this channel isn’t because I wish Jon Bois would upload videos more often.

Vor 2 Monate
Shjade
Shjade

I'm reminded of the incident that first made me quit WoW altogether (as in not just "taking a break" but intending to never play again). It started as something of an instrumental play bullying thing—I was the only melee, a rogue, in an heroic Lost City of Tol'vir run with 4 guildmates. Not my guildmates, unfortunately: the other four were all in the same guild, I was the odd man out. So after the first boss is done, they start making fun of how bad my DPS is, way below the other two, almost in range of the tank's damage output. I briefly explain the first boss is considerably less melee-friendly so of course the ranged DPS will shine, they're not having it, so fine, I stop talking to them and we move on. We get to the second boss. I end up a good 10% ahead of either of them. I don't tease them about it; I just link the meter results. We get to the third boss. I'm even farther ahead of the other DPS. I don't even bother linking the meter, because they all shut up about it after the second boss anyway, I figure I made my point and don't need to rub it in. And as I'm headed toward the entrance to the last boss's area... I get kicked. No warning, no discussion, just poofed out of the group. See, the boss of that heroic had really nice agility drops—it was why I was running it in the first place, to get some upgrades for the rogue—in particular a really good agility-stacking trinket. And they didn't want me in the party to compete for that drop with their hunter. So they kicked me, which meant I was locked to an instance that only had one boss left in it for the day, which meant I was unlikely to be able to find a group willing to join that instance only to kill the last boss while missing out on the first three. They didn't just screw me out of a chance at the loot for that run, they'd effectively scrapped my ability to finish that run at all that day. I logged out and uninstalled. Who needs a community like that in their recreation time?

Vor 2 Monate
Shjade
Shjade

@EQOAnostalgia Wow. My condolences to your wife for that experience. That's wretched. I wouldn't have wanted to go back either. :| I can't say I ever played EQOA, only the original flavor Everquest, which was definitely a more positive community experience when I played it. I wouldn't call it a better *game*, but I enjoyed my time in its world and roleplaying and grouping in it on the whole at least as much as I did in WoW, possibly more. ...modern EQ emulator servers, on the other hand. Hoo boy. Absolute peak instrumental play on par with anything you'd find in WoW Classic servers. Everything eternally camped, endgame guilds locked down, absolutely no consideration for other players if they're competition for anything, etc. The modern MMO atmosphere is just so different compared to 20 years ago.

Vor 4 Tage
EQOAnostalgia
EQOAnostalgia

Yup... i told the story on my channel how my wife was recovering from cancer surgery and running HER FIRST dungeon in WoW. She was called useless, and kicked because she wasn't a twink... this was during MoP. Imagine your ovaries are torn out a week prior, and some no-lifer PoS says you're useless in the vehicle you're using to escape irl, and kicks you from YOUR FIRST F'ING DUNGEON. I.E. Your very first experience with the WoW community EVER. She cried her eyes out, i had to calm her down and explain that sad, pathetic people with no life, derive a sick pleasure from 1 upping you in a f'ing dungeon in a video game, when you're new and they're 2000 hours deep. She refused to go back, and i don't blame her. We met in EverQuest Online Adventures, a much superior MMORPG imo, but popular opinion says otherwise.

Vor 4 Tage
Resileaf
Resileaf

@dackattac If you ask me, Blizz has encouraged toxic behaviour among their playerbase. They encouraged the Horde-Alliance rivalry, going as far as telling Alliance players to kill themselves during Blizzcon. If you encourage the players to be toxic at each other over faction lines, the players are going to be toxic toward everyone.

Vor 2 Monate
cattysplat
cattysplat

Guild cliques really do promote degenerate behaviour. Nobody wants to talk about it, but it is reality.

Vor 2 Monate
Shjade
Shjade

@dackattac I tend to assume it's defensiveness about their own inclinations. They see a story like this and, consciously or not, think it's something they'd do if they were in that position. "Heck yeah I'd screw someone else out of getting loot that I want if I had the chance." So it's not a story about a dick move anymore, it's a personal attack on them, even though they weren't even in it.

Vor 2 Monate
Arlen S
Arlen S

Love your work. Please keep doing your thing.

Vor 2 Monate
Pablo Bronstein
Pablo Bronstein

This is what happens when people approach and interact with the world like it's an Excel spreadsheet.

Vor 2 Monate
EQOAnostalgia
EQOAnostalgia

This is what happens when Silicon valley takes over your culture.

Vor 4 Tage
Pablo Bronstein
Pablo Bronstein

@Ellie Speedruns, RTS's, turn by turn attract machine minded people and they tend to be good at optimization and problem-solving and often find the best possible solution. *The game* is the *problem* to be solved. Any other approach that doesn't solve the problem most efficently is frowned upon. Noone is pressuring others to do as they do in the same way nobody pressures anyone to use social media. As I said, "This is what happens when people approach and interact with the world like it's an Excel spreadsheet."

Vor Monat
Ellie
Ellie

Well, ultimately, the problem isn't quite that? The pursuit of perfection can be quite fun for the right people. Otherwise we wouldn't have speedruns, we wouldn't have turn by turn games played competitively, and there wouldn't be people who enjoy optimizing a build in a casual playthrough of a single-player RPG to the point of rolling on everything. The problem is more when people try to pressure others into doing it, try to impose their views of how that pursuit should look like as the only valid one, and/or when the fun of the pursuit is lost. Last one of those three not being as bad and being more subjective since it concerns only the person doing it.

Vor Monat
svsguru2000
svsguru2000

I never intended to play WoW at this time, and this video managed to make me want to play the game even less.

Vor 2 Monate
Elvin Moy
Elvin Moy

Beautiful video. Started as a lfr normie in legion but shadowlands was my first real taste of wanting to explore the raiding environment in it's highest form (hall of fame). From removing the action bar art to downloading weak aura #100 as 'mandatory' per my raid leader, to even making some of my own fun WA's sounds (wii music during lust, 'stop dmg' meme at boss health %), the definition of what it means to have fun in this game has evolved throughout the years (not only just wow). I've taken a break the past few months and am watching the DF honeymoon phase roll over the next few weeks and hope that we as a community can rework what makes the game fun - the people you play with.

Vor 2 Monate
Thomas Bachrach
Thomas Bachrach

You verbalised and researched a feeling I've had for a long time that has caused me problems in multiplayer games; I don't want to spend time calculating the mathematically optimal way for me to walk in a straight line, I don't want to practice my mousework every day to the point I give myself hand tremors, I just want to enjoy the game and enjoy getting better. That's part of the reason why I enjoy games like TF2 and Overwatch because the casual modes enable goofy behaviour and I can just stay there. You get people who take it too seriously, but it doesn't really matter in the game.

Vor 2 Monate
Bluegem
Bluegem

@Michael R I think it was maybe also due to at least one of the "player" created competitive styles was such a difference compared to casual (with sixes only using like 4 classes of 9 in general) as well as being limited greatly in map variety (from last I knew, was 5 control points and King of the Hill (don't know if its been shaken up at all)), as well as valve seeming to try the forced competitive scene when they did seem to try supporting one

Vor 18 Tage
bagel2
bagel2

Overwatch is mixed bag. I’ve had some really cool teammates and some wild games, but then there’s people who take casual hyper seriously and blame people for “throwing” on a gamemode with 0 stakes.

Vor Monat
Appletank8
Appletank8

@Michael R Comp actually uses Scout, Soldier, Demo, Medic primarily, and the other 5 situationally. Comp almost prioritizes speed above all else. Heavy is just too slow for the hectic nature of Comp TF2. Medic is of course centered around Ubercharge IMO, OW's mistake was trying to make casual a mirror of comp, when it really should have tried to encourage more chaos instead of increasingly restricting team comp. At the start of the game, where nobody really knew what they were doing, it was fine. But as people got more experience, certain combinations of heroes just worked, instead of what Blizz had originally intended of hero switching to counter comps. Instead, it ended up that one comp just worked for everything, becoming exactly like Comp TF2 where the only characters used were the generalists that worked in most situations. If team counts were raised way up, then there's a chance the spew of projectiles would make tryharding less impactful. Like, look at Smash, it specifically included items and wacky stuff flying across the screen because party mode isn't intended to be balanced, its trying to be fun chaos. If you want to tryhard, that's what 1v1 is for.

Vor 2 Monate
00hhboy
00hhboy

@Da Kat The margins are so tight that you have to play a near perfect game by rote. It's not a dynamic fight, it's a puzzle that can be solved mathematically and probably designed mathematically with the very same tools. Bad game design and a direct result of catering to super hardcore. It is also an inherent problem of MMO and RPG that lean stats in general of getting too powerful, requiring ever more ridiculous new game+ bosses.

Vor 2 Monate
00hhboy
00hhboy

@Hilliam66 If you can make the Scout AR work for you, that's great. I can see the builds, but the underlying gun is very uninteresting, typical "AR", especially when you have all these other weapons to play with. Actually, the scout had a serious "Boring" problem. The primaries were too vanilla. The Plasma gun/cross made it fun. Yeah, some weapons you shouldn't manually reload. I rarely use the breech cutter as I don't feel it. As for Haz 5, it depends on the mission and mood. Example, As eng elimination I bring an "Anti tank RPG". That thing when it nails the weak point is very satisfying. Gunner, I use terrain pen rail pistol for crazy boss killing damage and saving people. Flak or lead storm or all ammo, always on kill cooling. Scout, maybe full weak point sniper paired with SMG, but usually plasma + bow pheromones + ifg. Driller, none except goo is good against glyh, otherwise long burn or maxed freeze power. As for "general" purpose and DDE. Eng big nuke/exploding plat, mini shotgun, Guardian turret whip (Auto shotty is why?). Gunner, max splash flak, magic poison magnum, maybe rail if I am cocky. Scout, bonuce plasma + shotty. Drillers, mostly sticky flame. If i feel like it, max freeze power or max goo puddles + slow + time. I don't use the pistol, its just meh (See scout weapons). Nades are whatever fits you as most are good. My underlying philosophy is to pick an aspect and go all in. Being "generalist" makes for meh weapons. Let your team mates cover your weaknesses. As for tactics, again, don't try to do everything. example, Driller is eh on bosses, instead do mob security, stay alive for pick up. No one is going to worry about your DPS if they can see what utility you are bringing. Gunner can go mine or whatever, but you are better off doing zip line security so the better miners can do what they do better. Scout pair with eng, go mine and kite. Eng, plat and wreak all mobs. Drill path, should always do pipes(Grr when people cross pipes), close in security, Macs(yes, for real) and final escape. Lastly, don't be too fing greedy (WTF event with no ammo and escape ready?). Know when to fold and hit the red button. Don't be a hero trying to rescue everyone if you are in pod, mission first. f to pay respects. Good players will tell you to leave them behind.

Vor 2 Monate
VILLAIN
VILLAIN

This video deserves way more exposure.

Vor 2 Monate
Summer
Summer

I feel like a lot of this is why I just can't do multiplayer games. I love games but they are a fundamentally solitary experience for me, I need to be able to explore the game both narratively and mechanically on my own terms, and dealing with the social element and especially competition just utterly destroys any enjoyment I could derive from it.

Vor 2 Monate
EQOAnostalgia
EQOAnostalgia

You can, you just have to find a dad guild lol. Avoid PuGs, they're sweaty and they are terrible players who want to boast over the least in the group for their E-peen lol.

Vor 5 Tage
Bentley109
Bentley109

Same here. I pretty much exclusively play single player games because for me they are an escape from having to deal with people all day at work and everywhere else in life. Being able to just have fun in a virtual world however I want without pressure from others to play a certain way is empowering and freeing for me. What Dan describes in this video just sounds like a hostile work environment that you’re not even getting paid to put up with…no thanks!

Vor 8 Tage
0H0UR
0H0UR

i've never played world of warcraft but play a lot of final fantasy xiv, and i routinely find myself horrified watching other people play WoW. just last week i watched my roommate get vote kicked and called multiple slurs for fucking up one pull and then shrug it off like that's normal. i've seen people yell and throw tantrums, sure, but it's never physically stopped me from playing the game like a kick does, and the small handful of times i've seen slurs the offenders were banned in short order. amazing how much an active moderation team helps. though it's sad that they're clearly So necessary, i'd like to have more faith in people than that...

Vor 2 Monate
Xanthanarium
Xanthanarium

A lot of the time, I hear about all of these crazy WoW stories from people that I follow (Jesse Cox, the Yogscast, etc.) and I feel sad that I missed out on all of this. Then I'm reminded of little fun it seems WoW players were allowed to have, and I'm glad I stayed away.

Vor 2 Monate
Sherlock Pies
Sherlock Pies

On the other hand, I had plenty of amazing experiences. On that I will never forget was when I couldn’t afford the subscription (being from a poor family and all) and receiving a month of game-time from my guild leader as a gift so that I could continue raiding. That was probably the first time in my life I felt really appreciated by someone. So yeah - with a fan base of millions of players you will always meet some shitheads, but also some amazing people.

Vor Monat
Sherlock Pies
Sherlock Pies

To be fair, WoW is being played by millions of people. Throughout my time in WoW I’ve never felt that my enjoyment of the game was somehow limited by peer pressure. There’s always a chance you’re gonna meet some terrible people, not unlike real life. The good thing is - you can always change your guild if you’re feeling that other players are toxic or salty about the way you’re playing. I started playing as a kid during WOTLK, and sucked at it up until Legion (that’s 4 expansions later) where I would eventually reach #1 resto Shaman on my realm. Not once during that time was I pressured to gear up, unless we count the item level requirements for joining the raid group, which I had agreed on when joining my semi-hardcore guild. Previous to that I was in casual guilds where the only requirement was having the raid actually unlocked. 99% of people you’re gonna meet outside of your guild won’t even look at your character, let alone tell you how to play the game.

Vor Monat
Hannah Wilson
Hannah Wilson

As a blind gamer, I was glad to hear the world of opportunity opened up by addons for people with disabities get a mention. I have struggled to find playable games, struggled to play those games, and struggled with feelings of isolation and rejection as I continually try and fail to contribute in multiplayer games. The one and only game I have ever found where I didn't constantly feel like I was letting the team down was World of Warcraft. I don't play anymore, but bigwigs voice and weakauras weren''t simply ways I used to enhance my play, they were the sole reason I was able to play at all. Not only did they enable me to enjoy the game, they also enabled me to play at a decently high level. I've cleared Mythic raids and got KSM several times. In a world which is at best difficult, and at worst actively hostile, the feeling of triumph I got from being able to contribute productively to my team's success cannot be understated. It's nice to know I'm not the only one.

Vor 2 Monate
doltBmB
doltBmB

Meanwhile the rest of us are isolated by being forced to play with these jackoffs or have nothing at all to play.

Vor Monat
asmRTPOP
asmRTPOP

@Tkhiop Dj It’s a different perspective when it’s the one game your disability can see :)

Vor Monat
Hierophant Beans
Hierophant Beans

There was a blind dude on my classic server who tanked for one of the guilds pushing world firsts. I'm not sure of his addon setup but I always thought that was respectable, as much as I hate sweaty speedrunning raid guilds (being an RP PvPer) :')

Vor 2 Monate
duffman18
duffman18

@Loch Ness Hamster Well remember, the vast vast majority of blind people can see, they just can't see _WELL_ So accessibility for blind gamers is the same thing as accessibility for operating systems like Windows, where usually the thing is to make everything much larger and use colours that contrast with each other way more. I'm sure as well that buying a huge TV and plugging your PC into it and putting it on your desk so you're right next to it, helps. So it's not like all blind gamers are completely 100% blind. Very few blind people are 100% blind. I mean on the lower end of the legally blind scale, you've got people who basically just need very thick glasses. So yeah. It's a weird kind of thing with disabilities where some people seem to think we are all completely useless and can't do anything, because we have a disability. I don't think they're believing that maliciously, it's just that if they don't know anybody with a disability, then they probably haven't ever thought about it. But people with disabilities can still do things, like blind people can play video games, as long as there's accessibility standards to it. It's not different really from making it law that all stairs at the entrance of buildings must also have a ramp. But yeah. The vast majority of disabilities are invisible. So most people with disabilities don't need a significant form of aid, even something like a walking stick. But they do need to be able to park near the entrance to stores and that sort of thing because otherwise they couldn't walk that far. So yeah blind people are very capable of playing games, using computers, using smartphones etc, even the ones who are 100% blind. Like the guy who was an exec and programmer at Windows for decades, and he did all his work via text-to-speech, but since he'd used it so long, he ramped up the reading speed to the maximum and nobody else could understand a single word of it, but he knew exactly what it was saying. He's probably a big reason why Microsoft have always been great about accessibility, and in turn Xbox have been great too (and their accessibility controller thing they make, they made it so it works with all types of computers and all consoles, and made it open source so people can independently create add-ons to plug into it to help with specific disabilities, and Microsoft didn't _HAVE_ to do any of that, but they did anyway, and I respect them for that)

Vor 2 Monate
Jonathan Judenberger
Jonathan Judenberger

Honestly if you were in my group/raid and just gave a disclaimer with your blindness I would totally welcome you and be understanding. WoWs community is amazing.

Vor 2 Monate
xkz92
xkz92

It improved a bit in recent years but Guild Wars 2 had the same co-dependency between the game & external tools, especially for achievements & collectibles which you had 0 hints whatsoever : entire communities grouped up to write guides, everybody else (myself included) used guides/maps to find them because you'd be insane not to, but they kept making things more obscure and hidden *because* there would be guides about it anyway so might as well let them do all the effort. There are still some rewards in the game that require amongst many objectives, some the game doesn't tell you about unless you stumble upon them by chance, or read about them online - making reading up not really an option anymore.

Vor Monat
dawfydd
dawfydd

Its also funny the footage of the geared players seems to be from Argual, i decided since i played the end of TBC and all of Wrath i was gonna opt out, i also *attempted* to find a middle dad guild, but in TBC it became more and more the push towards the speed running, the time it takes the upset when normal mistakes happen - baby rage. I just didn't wanna push hard repeat the same things i already did, i peaked clearing sunwell, getting some server firsts on a nobody first, clearing heroic mode raids, i didn't think i could find the same group and peak again not so many years later. But yeah Classic.. its all there is.. its afking in AV for honour or its pushing to go fast in every dungeon even though it doesn't matter, or raiding like speed clears gotta skip trash.. even though our dad guild keeps having one afk who ends up pulling that group anyway.. each week.. we GOTTA SKIP IT!.. and each week or almost each week, we spend more time sneaking then pulling it anyway. Naxx was great for that! But i got Atiesh WOO, that was my big goal, everything else was gravy on top.

Vor Monat
DisasterDom
DisasterDom

As a "Wallace" type WoW player, I really appreciated this. I'm perfectly content to just play the game solo, at my own pace, working on achievements that sound fun, exploring and casually leveling through zones, and just sort of "vibing" throughout Azeroth. Thanks, Dan!

Vor 2 Monate
EQOAnostalgia
EQOAnostalgia

Aye! I'm a William Wallace and i once killed a group of Troggs with bolts of lightning from me arse! Ye can find me in Dun Modr in me pair O' Bitchin Boots! Seriously. . . latest upload, shameless plug lol.

Vor 5 Tage
Solis
Solis

I played most o WoW solo as well, and I thoroughly enjoyed grinding the Bloodsail Admiral title and achievement on my own time without the pressure of being there on time for raids and other things that require you to perform. But I was mostly in casual guilds with IRL friends, so anything we did was just for fun. Any content we couldn't do... well.. didnt really matter. Any lore we missed we just read about on the wikis :P

Vor 29 Tage
GammaPrime
GammaPrime

@asmRTPOP i wish :( i have seen some shit in PUGs okay

Vor Monat
asmRTPOP
asmRTPOP

@doltBmB You haven’t heard very good musicians then. Poor analogy and untrue when taken literally or figuratively. I feel bad for people who NEED others to enjoy a game.

Vor Monat
asmRTPOP
asmRTPOP

@GammaPrime Babe, Wallace players do not rage. We are immune to raging. 😅

Vor Monat
Space Boy
Space Boy

WoW could just take place inside an empty box. No music, art, textures, objects, effects or flair. Just simple 2D shapes representing the raiders and their spells and the boss and it’s mechanics. People would still play it.

Vor Monat
Pank Aches
Pank Aches

I played WoW for 10 years, starting with the end of BC/beginning of Wrath. I'd found a great community of friends, people I thought I'd want to experience the game with for the rest of its life. It's a bit sad and maybe pathetic to say now but I found someone I had loved through WoW. I'd started and built a raiding guild with my friends and my girlfriend, I'd been one of the raid leaders and the main tank for our raids for years. Then when my job meant I couldn't play as much as the others, I get ONE item level behind some other guy and I'm replaced as tank, told I don't have enough gear to join as DPS, and that I could come back when I had better gear. How? When my one source of improving in the "numbers" game, playing with my friends, had been taken from me? I would eventually stop talking to all of them over time and decided to just play the game for myself, leaving the guild I had helped build from the ground up and experiencing what content I could on my own. It was really sad for me, having spent about ten years playing this game and all these characters and helping shape a small community. It worsened the depression I had already suffered from to play like this, knowing what I was leaving behind (or rather, what I felt had been stripped from me) and playing alone, and I eventually stopped playing altogether at some point during BFA. I know some people like the numbers part of the game, making sure everything is completely and 100% optimized to make the most of each click. But, for me, this video puts into words everything wrong with the game I've never been able to put into words myself. It's a combination of nostalgic, cathartic, sad, and reassuring to watch this video. Thank you, Dan.

Vor 2 Monate
EQOAnostalgia
EQOAnostalgia

Nothing sad or pathetic about it, 20 years with my wife thanks to an MMORPG. Sorry you fell victim to the plastic world of "let's connect" culture. L.A. is known for this shit, people just hook up to get ahead, the second they can't use you as a f'ing stepping stone they're outty. Forget them, find a dad guild or better yet just play with your significant other, i met my wife in EQOA. EverQuest for Playstation 2. Duo with a significant other, and leave the world behind.

Vor 4 Tage
MissMarvel
MissMarvel

@Pank Aches It's not missing the point, your situation is different. Expecting the roster to be switched (tanks to fill your spot when you can't be there and to swap to DPS when you can) around depending on whether or not you can show up is rude. It's unreliability and unnecessary concern.

Vor 22 Tage
Scott Free
Scott Free

@Pank Aches Maybe you should take criticism better.

Vor Monat
Pank Aches
Pank Aches

Lmao @ people replying to tell me how my experience actually happened, and the one guy who said I'm an "oldhead" who "benefited from the way the game used to be." Lmao WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?! "It sounds like you weren't reliable," is missing the entire point that the video, and myself, were trying to make. "You did this yourself," again missing the point for the same reason. There's no hidden reason or insight, it's as shallow as it sounds. If getting a job to support myself, meaning I had 8ish less hours a day to play the game, meant I was "too unreliable" (read: 1 ilvl lower than another player) to do mythics and raids to keep up with my guild and was something I'd "done to myself," then that is a problem with the community and with the way the game is structured. The thing this video is about, but you're still falling for it. Do you types have any media literacy?

Vor Monat
J. Stanley
J. Stanley

@Deez Nuttes *Everyone online* is a lazy introverted dipshit; how is that an insult?? 🤣😂 You're working an unpaid internship in WoW of your own free will. That's fine, keep doing that, no one else gives a shit unless they wanna study you. But maybe don't kink shame the clown fuckers; there's a lot of them by your estimate. 🤡

Vor 2 Monate
sunnydaye
sunnydaye

holy shit. i get it. i get it now. i finally understand why my taste in games is so crazy and extreme. how i can somehow both love hyper-abstract, meandering, immersive "make your own fun" art-games like yume nikki, but simultaneously love what's probably the most directly competitive genre there is, fighting games. i have a greater emotional appreciation for slow, immersive games, but still have a ton of fun nerding out over efficiency and "doing my best" and it's like, oh, eureka! i get these contradictory needs from different games! this must be why some people practice polyamory...

Vor 2 Monate
Theorak
Theorak

I have have no connection with WoW, but I really like challenging co-op games like Left4Dead, Civ, Vermintide - I never feel the needed to yell at someone for not performing best. I like mentoring and teasing a bit if I see a better approach or play style, but I can communicate that politely. I don't get throwing a fit and insults a people at their learning at their own pace, even in a public challenge setting. Maybe it's just rude to be rude.

Vor 2 Monate
MumboJ
MumboJ

Fascinating, although speaking as a player who doesn't do Mythics I must say I experience little to none of these pressures. I recently had a discussion with a guildmate about addons but I declined many of them because I just didn't like the playstyle. I enjoy playing the game as is, with a few addons to suit my own preferences. That's ultimately what addons are for, after all. I did wonder where the max console distance option went. Honestly I always used it because it made the game look better. I didn't realise just how far you could take it, but if people want to play that way then why not let them? Edit: Also, the new UI is ugly and broken and I don't understand how it made it through any kind of testing.

Vor 2 Monate
Bailey Wattron
Bailey Wattron

I am glad you have adopted the Jon Bois' style of documentary filmmaking. May it conquer the whole of youtube.

Vor 2 Monate
barge489
barge489

This really nails how much I loved MMOs as a 12 year old kid getting lost in EverQuest, not having a clue about anything. I remember my best friend and I hearing about another place and actually asking for directions. We set off from kelethin, a tiny piece of the game. But all we ever knew to they point and made our way across the butcherblock mountains. Past a dwarf city and an ocean by boat to Freeport. Which blew our minds. Then how I was ok with it as a teenager playing EQ, while being aware of things like Alakazam. But the magic was gone. I wasn't discovering things anymore, I was looking up known information. The mystical world of EverQuest turned into perfect maps. The wonder of the monsters found turned into timed and patterned spawn points. The thrill of getting that sudden rare drop off that one creature that's got a different name or skin than the others, replaced by a probability table. There was still fun to be had, we crossed the entire game world with level 1 characters one time. My fun no longer came from the explicit systems of the game, I had to make my own. By the time I migrated to WoW with my friends, this was how virtually everyone we knew played. There never was the thrill of discovery, just the satisfaction of efficiency. I enjoyed wow, but never in the way 12 year old me was enthralled by ew, at no fault of Blizzard, it was all how I interacted with their great game world. I am unsure if I chose to kill the magic or of games moved past it and I was long for the ride. But this is the reason I never really went back to MMOs after a while despite trying many of them. It's the constant engineering the fun out of the amazing virtual worlds. When all the magic is data and I am conscious of all of this knowable data. I will inevitably choose to know the data, instead of feel the magic. Single player games don't have the same social pressure of optimisation and it's easy for me to do a "discovery run" before choosing to optimize the crap out of a game. I think I would love an MMO style game that would be effectively uncatalogable. Something that "cataclysm-ed" itself in short intervals, but the degree of content generation needed for they would likely have a lot of knock on effects and might not result in the best game.

Vor 2 Monate
EQOAnostalgia
EQOAnostalgia

Same i began with EverQuest Online Adventures. I'm realizing there are MANY of us... i started Classic WotLK 2 weeks ago and began a video series on it. I've been pretty dejected about the stark contrast between myself and the majority of chatter i see. It's all parses, bs tryhard crap. Not my thing lol. I'll be ignoring it. I need to start making content that appeals to the more casual EverQuest fan, because i am one! WE DO EXIST, and nobody gives us very much space to exist. . . i'm all about the journey, the atmosphere, exploration and making REAL friends. Not being used for gains.

Vor 5 Tage
Antal Wahlers
Antal Wahlers

"There never was the thrill of discovery, just the satisfaction of efficiency." That's a good one. Thx.

Vor 5 Tage
Patashu
Patashu

Maybe a procgen MMO? It'd be an extremely hard project but I love the idea of fundamentally undocumentable games. Like roguelikes, where while you can ascribe good tactics and strategies and there are known constants, the best way to play them cannot be said objectively since every run is different.

Vor Monat
Lind Morn
Lind Morn

Given Ive felt like the recent twitter exodus thats been happening, As well as the slowly growing union movement and exodus from capitalism itself, All share the same "vibe" that the world of Warcraft exodus had/has, A vibe afaik WoW was the first to experience in the 2000s onward.. This is very fitting

Vor 2 Monate
Pedro Moratelli
Pedro Moratelli

I enjoyed WoW when you could play casually, raid, and still have time to play other games or do other things in-game that weren't raid-tax related, such as mount farming or pet collecting. I think that the game has changed because of min-maxers, and it's none's fault but Blizzard's: they have the power and the data to detect degenerate behaviour, but they choose to ignore it or embrace it in order to profit from it as engaged players spend more time and money in-game. A classic example would be the AH: it has been plagued by TSM, a borderline AH does-it-all bot, that is mandatory to profit in the AH. Back when it was not so mainstream, people alerted Blizzard that letting TSM slide would be a massive change in selling/buying behaviour, mostly because it easily enables server-wide auction scanning and item sniping. Time goes on and voilà, AHs are horrible because a few players can cartel an entire server out of essential items. Why didn't Blizzard do something? Because those few players drive the price of items up, making other players have to spend more gold, making them need to farm more gold or to buy wow tokens. Either way, Blizzard wins: players spend more time farming, they get better DAU/MAU metrics; players buy wow tokens, they get their money.

Vor 2 Monate
banjiepixel
banjiepixel

I wish that the game would transfer automatically players that play too hard into their own separate sandbox so they could be there as competitive and scummy as much as they want without ruining the fun for casual players. Surely it wouldn't be hard to find fair limits that would trigger this transfer. But then again, Blizzard has no moral or honor so no wonder they are fine with similar behavior by the players. Best option is to play something else that is much more worth your time and money.

Vor 2 Monate
icedrgon
icedrgon

Wow this documentary almost single handedly made me want to stop logging into WoW.

Vor 2 Monate
api g
api g

"worlds become real when we care about them, not when they look similar to our own." gonna go find a window to stare out of for the next 500 years. this month has been so good for the longform videos, but i am also so incredibly full of big existential thoughts

Vor 2 Monate
Sahdirah
Sahdirah

I haven’t gotten to this place in the video yet, but that quote reminds me of The Velveteen Rabbit.

Vor 2 Monate
jpVari
jpVari

I love fighting games and starcraft and the improvement and study these games all but demand... it's nice to have a word for it. in fighting games, while training mode is 'in the game', the way it has influenced the social understanding of fighting games (and does everytime a dlc character is released, as people point to numbers and insist a character is broken one way or another) is so similar to these mods. As well, replays in starcraft/starcraft 2. absolute immeasurable game changers. edit - this makes me wanna play wotlk so much but I know it'll never be what it was for me 12 years ago. why pretend lmao. I'd be happy to just watch a video of some question I think. I adore some of those zones.

Vor 2 Monate
bruna maria martin arroyo
bruna maria martin arroyo

The worst choice I've ever made was come back to play and choose Vengeance DH as character. Gosh, when I tried m+ for the first time, people started to curse me and say I should uninstall the game. I gave up the m+ and came back at gathering mounts and transmog alone, play with friends to laugh when someone dies in a dungeon/raid

Vor 2 Monate
Khyrberos
Khyrberos

Dang I got my hopes up this would be about Warcraft *Three* (one of the forgotten RTS ones). 😅 Still, excellent video.

Vor 2 Monate
Scott Merryman
Scott Merryman

This video is a long way to say, "There are extremes on both sides" - however Toxic you think the elites are is the same on the most extreme "casual" side of pure negligence and down right stupidity. All you need to understand about yourself, is how competitive are you. And how Far you want to go. Its a spectrum and all you need to do is find other like minded players. But what a majority of wow players love the most is just drama, which is what we see here.

Vor 2 Monate
LEXX
LEXX

I find the editing in this absolutely facinating, no cuts, just one massive timeline with all the elements already laid out, almost letting you get sneak peaks at future parts of the videos as the camera smoothly transitions between sections. Really cool!!!

Vor Monat
SoftBank47
SoftBank47

@Hastyscorpion pretty good.

Vor Tag
Hastyscorpion
Hastyscorpion

This is in the style of chart party.

Vor 26 Tage
Collin Reeves
Collin Reeves

jon bois and BobbyBroccoli do this exactly with really cool presentations of timelines and references, I’d highly recommend checking them out.

Vor Monat
KR Merrill
KR Merrill

I stopped playing WOW and other mmos a long time ago, but I have consistently played The Sims for a very long time. It is almost a mirror image of this. It is completely free play that can't be optimized, but the community creates challenges that can be scored paratextually . Modding is a key aspect of the game, it makes it more playable, ads many elements, but also it can be incredibly frustrating because it almost feels like you can't play the game without it because at a certain point the game feels like it is designed to have mods pick up where it falls down. Whole communities form and you can be judged on how you play the game, how you design your characters, and what type of content you enjoy, which challenges you are doing, or any manner of thing. All for a single player game where the only online elements are opt in sharing of creations. Which makes me wonder if this whole get gud, and a right way to play, isn't just for video games with institutionalized practices to optimize game play and online multiplayer games, but part of the social element that has formed from the internet and around how we all try to optimize game play. Obviously this is just a quick observation, but I find that it is interesting that some of these parallels exist in a single player mostly offline game due to community engagement.

Vor 2 Monate
Ryan M
Ryan M

I feel like I'm in a very small minority of people who played Lineage 2 instead of WoW growing up, so I can kinda relate when people talk about WoW but not really. I thought it looked better.

Vor 2 Monate
TwoCoats
TwoCoats

My college friends and I still laugh about back in 2005 when a guy in our dorm kept looting during fights in wailing caverns. And he would actively deny it. Then during a fight the game lagged real hard and everyone was stuck moving around in whatever animation they were stuck in. Zach was stuck in the loot animation. He still denied it. 😂

Vor 26 Tage
Sausig
Sausig

Hey Dan, not related to the video, but one of my all-time-favorite internet moments happened a few months ago. I was in a discord channel for Slay the Spire, when a random user hopped into the general chat to suggest that the game devs could make Slay the Spire NFTs. What commenced was the online version of an audible groan from everyone in the room as everyone proceeded to cite your video on NFTs, and rebuffed the newcomer with well-articulated points. The newcomer must have been someone at least a bit invested in NFTs or fairly young as he just didn't seem to grasp any points made to him. He just seemed to think NFTs were good, and why wouldn't the devs want to make NFTs of the game? This unanimous agreement on a subject none of us had talked about up until that point was so satisfying to me, so thank you for changing so many minds on the subject, or more so just giving a link to throw at dumbass crypto bros who come calling. It's a beautiful thing.

Vor 2 Monate
Bill Peschel
Bill Peschel

This is heartening and why we need to produce and watch more content like this. You can influence people through reasoned arguments, if their beliefs hadn't been solidified already.

Vor 2 Monate
A
A

This had absolutely happened to me as well. I was in a group argument about nfts a few days ago and I remember slowly realizing that everyone on my "side" of the argument had watched Line Goes Up and agreed with it's excellent points.

Vor 2 Monate
Rift
Rift

Really proud of both Folding Ideas to have such an impact, and you guys for taking it to heart. I hope the dude in question at least starts having second thoughts about his NFT investment if he unfortunately has.

Vor 2 Monate
Jonathan Gill
Jonathan Gill

The FTX scam that's dominating news headlines is just yet more proof that nobody should be mucking around with cryptocurrency.

Vor 2 Monate
B-sting.nl
B-sting.nl

This video answers the question some one asked me decades ago: "Why don't you just give this hot new game World of Warcraft a try?"

Vor 2 Monate
Nurpus
Nurpus

I feel like I need 2-hour video on WoW basics just to understand this video...

Vor 2 Monate
Mad Hamster
Mad Hamster

It saddens me deeply that Baldy will never react to this masterpiece.

Vor 2 Monate
MrSkillns
MrSkillns

I played WoW from 2006... Shit I was like, 12? And I sucked, big time. Of course, I was a kid in this newfound world of amazing adventure, lands yet to be seen and power yet to be earned! But as time grew, I got better, learning and growing. I am an unashamed Combat rogue, and yes I know it's called Outlaw now but. In my heart it will forever be Combat. Eventually I started raiding, a few years later of course. I learned, and man did I get good. I was THE rogue who used "Tricks of the Trade", stayed out of the fire, valued being alive over DPS. But gradually, over years I saw a change. It was small at first, as most changes are. You needed this and that addon. I complied, and those addons were great and helped lots. Then we got to mandatory meetups with reprimands if you did not meet. Theorycrafting so intense it could make a math professor cream his pants. Talents and skills you had to take to be competitive. Competitive against your own guildmates. People being so toxic even in LFR standing next to them... I'd rather swallow a cylinder of Cobalt-60. I loved WoW for the potential there was in experimentation, creating a playstyle you enjoyed. When Legion launched and "Slice and Dice" was replaced with "Roll the Bones", sure I was excited to try it out. While it was a welcome breath of fresh air it just... fell flat. Now suddenly my DPS in a raid was beholden to a literal roll dice. I've always preferred a more methodical, stable DPS than being all about random chance. I'm sure you can already tell I fucking hate "Roll the Bones". So I made a build, centered around "Slice and Dice". What did I meet? Ridicule. Bullying. A pressure to conform or I would be cast aside and replaced. That was when I understood my time with WoW was over and done. There's no fun in it anymore, with so many sweaty tryhards. Of course I could join them in their docility but I play video games for fun. WoW, setting aside the shit Blizz has done the last few years, isn't fun anymore, and I blame the community. Sometimes the hand of fate must be forced, and I am glad it was.

Vor 2 Monate
Slopoke
Slopoke

I was pretty well into WoW up until shortly after Cataclysm, and when I was asked why I stopped playing by my guildmates, I told them I didn't want another job. All this boils down to you having to be geared well enough to even participate, do enough research to know what to do, and ultimately deal with the stress of not effing up your role to the point where you're not invited any more. Each one of those is a huge time sink and seemed more like work than a thing I did to have fun in my off time, and as I grew older, I had less disposable time. I'm glad I watched this video, as it breaks down essentially what caused this new work, and was just a result of the circumstances of the era it came out in, the technology involved, and just plain people. Thanks Dan and everyone else involved in this great piece.

Vor 2 Monate
Diewott
Diewott

@embyvii I literally only did Raids in MMOs twice (both in Destiny 1). The only thing that made it bearable was laughing at all the stupid shit because my team was a bunch of average players trying to understand WTF was going on lol

Vor 6 Tage
Nyanko
Nyanko

Depends on your definition of “participate.” I played on Vanilla for many days of played time and only did MC one time. There’s just so many other people out there in the world to meet. I always felt I’d spend my time better running through the jungles of stranglethorn meeting all the players than spending four hours in a raid doing the same thing I did last week and likely getting no loot.

Vor Monat
Indarys
Indarys

Exactly the same time I stopped. When I started I thought legendary weapons were the coolest thing ever, especially back in the day when they were actually limited to only 10-12 people on a server having one, and wanted that to be my goal. I joined the best alliance raiding guild on my RP server and played pretty consistantly through to Cata, when I got the Tarecgosa staff from Firelands . I got super burnt out in Dragon Soul and quit for all of MoP, and when I came back in Legion it was like the game was a completely different animal. Ironically a lot of the issues I had with the difficulty of finding groups for harder content has been solved now but it's still not a system I really care to get back into at all.

Vor Monat
Eric Hall
Eric Hall

@Bored Allosaurusit’s back pretty nicely in dragonflight. The game is like night and day

Vor Monat
lrock48
lrock48

When it becomes a chore, it loses the fun factor. Same reason why I quit EverQuest.

Vor Monat
Delta's Game-O-Rama
Delta's Game-O-Rama

The listed time for Chapter 4 seems to be off. Link in description has 40:50, but in video it actually starts at 46:45.

Vor 2 Monate
N F
N F

As an added note on mods, during my own classic experience I wrote a mod which would look for heals which prevented killing blows and would give a shout-out to the healer that landed one before someone went down. It was fun to create, and added purely social value. It also led to some amusing moments, one where people who used healing potions that prevented their death would also get a shout-out. Never bother to create an actual UI, but it's there on github. A lot of this ties into comparison being the theft of joy. One thing which you touch on that has been lost is the satisfaction of figuring things out for yourself. It seems like the tendency is to skip that step and look up the answer. On some level it's like looking up the solution to a crossword puzzle. Ultimately it comes down to the individual and what gives them joy, but there is so much about current society that leads to a death of the experiential experience in favor of grinding numbers. No right or wrong, but when we dismiss personal growth and that experiential aspect, it feels like we partly abandon the soul in our quest to be the best robot. Everyone has their own goals and desires, neither path is inherently right or wrong, but life is already full of pressures to forgo living in favor of producing an end result.

Vor 2 Monate
Patashu
Patashu

This is such a good idea for a mod!

Vor Monat
Minister of Peace
Minister of Peace

@N F Beautifully voiced post. ❤‍🔥 I think this discussion leads perfectly into the argument of technology and the role it should play when it comes to serving a human need. What, ultimately, is your goal when engaging with the technology and how do you go about extracting meaning from it? Is it the thrill of exercising and exerting dominance, power, and prestige through mechanical mastery that animates you? And is WoW, overall, just another interchangeable virtual world, a pretext, to be subdued for the craven and base needs to get the status, power, and agency you might so desperately lack in your own present life? There's some basic philosophical premises that can be investigated here. But the litmus test should, for all intents and purposes, be how much joy can the media/technology add to your overall life as a work of immersive art/leisure. Does it add to your humanity by presenting the Good, the True, and Beautiful to such a degree that it motivates you to share your love of it with both new and old communities in playful and immersive ways thereby forging deeper bonds and discovering meaning from it? I'm not sure if WoW developers and WoW community creators with their myopic visions and cultural inertia are capable of dealing with the Wallace/Joy Seekers of the World. Not to the same degree that FFXIV and other media like it do. They will have to confront this dichotomy one day, *one is sustainable and self-renewing the other one is an arms race and a zero-sum game.*

Vor 2 Monate
Johnx014
Johnx014

What's it called? I'm a CS student interested in making a version for retail WoW as a project.

Vor 2 Monate
Seizure
Seizure

it's a great thing to work with a team to try and find the solution to a problem. unfortunately, this means you will either eventually find the solution, or give up trying.

Vor 2 Monate
Duncan Hull
Duncan Hull

"abandon the soul in the quest to be the best robot" *chefs kiss*

Vor 2 Monate
XDevantX
XDevantX

I remember exactly when this transition happened to me in WoW. In original WoW before BC I was higher level, not max, and I was farming in some winter zone for a super rare mount back in the days where just grinding was a legit form of leveling up and playing the game. I ran into a guildmate who asked me why I was wasting my time and told me to level up as fast as I could so I could start raiding. I was just enjoying the game and the atmosphere up to that point but that moment has stuck with me almost 15 years later. At the time I thought, "Why? I'm having fun". But really looking back at it, it was one of the last times I really just enjoyed playing an MMO for the sake of it for a long time. In Star Trek Online I used to just hang out in Earth Space Dock and talk with my friends. That was really enjoyable too. To follow up having watched more of the video, contrast the above player (who was me) with this this also true story (who is also me). At the launch of Wrath of the Lich King I was a raid leader in a middling BC raiding guild. With the launch of WoTLK I was the server second Warlock to hit max level. My roommate was the first. We had both taken time off work and we had planned to be server firsts. We played for something like 30 hours straight, I forget how much time exactly. But what transpired I still find funny. I was leading him and by extension the rest of the server, by a significant amount having discovered a kind of "exploitable" quest mob, we weren' the only players doing it but we had a head start. But we were both exhausted. He convinced me to take a nap. Needless to say the old story about the tortoise and the hare was true. While I was sleeping he passed me and he became server first warlock and I was second. Our guild (a middling BC guild mind you) was also one of the first to get 10 man Malagos(?) on farm status. Our guild started getting members poached left and right by "better" more established guilds on the server. Eventually we merged with another guild, and another, and it just wasn't the same group of people that I had loved playing BC with. This was not fun for me and eventually after a failing Naxxramas attempt, I the guild raid leader, quit WoW cold turkey and literally never played it again. It had stopped being the game that I had loved and played for years and I knew it could never be that again. It only took less than two months of the new expansion and the new attitude of myself and those around me.

Vor 2 Monate
Santa Australia
Santa Australia

I remember starting in BC, I played so many different characters that I've only did 2 raids. My cousin said "you should just level up more." He offered to get me parties to run dungeons to max out. I was thankful, wow, free levels! And I can do illidan! But I quickly realise, yeah, this ain't my game. I'm more of the type who runs around just to experience the world. By Woltk, I knew it's time to quit.

Vor 2 Monate
藍海
藍海

Ragnarok online was that for me, I would just sit in town talking to people. I never played the game "correctly" lol

Vor 2 Monate
SMPKarma
SMPKarma

funnily enough I also have a certain moment like that, except for me the game is Runescape. It's late 2007 and I've been playing for a couple years, just having fun and doing stuff I found exciting. So did my friend. However, he was quickly gaining money and levels, and I felt a bit jealous. So I gave my account away and started a new one. I already knew the game fairly well so figuring out *how* I could play more efficiently on a macro scale wasn't that difficult. Now it was all about just doing it and becoming micro efficient as well. And yeah by the end of 2008 I was at least on equal footing. By 2012 we both had quit, with me having an account probably like 6-10 times more impressive. I started Oldschool Runescape in 2013 when it came out (fresh off) and by now have an account that he (and honestly, most random people I meet ingame lol) doesn't really understand - like, how can one just play like that, doing one thing for a 1000 hours before going onto the next one but yeah the trick for me was to find stuff I like and just do that, so that I don't force myself to do things I don't enjoy like very many OSRS players do. So it's like... fun semi-efficiency? I def couldn't pump out like 15k+ hours in the game if I didn't enjoy it lol so, for me the moment was when I created that account (that I still use to this day!), that's when I sorta "graduated" to a goal-oriented gameplay rather than just fun

Vor 2 Monate
Peaked Interest
Peaked Interest

As a fellow content creator and overall minidoc editor the planning and execution of the visual assets of this video are excellent. I greatly appreciate the time taken in this video to provide a visual guide to largely non visual story elements. Superb job

Vor 2 Monate
pantslesswrock
pantslesswrock

@Anna H it's a pun

Vor 2 Monate
Anna H
Anna H

Piqued?

Vor 2 Monate
pantslesswrock
pantslesswrock

@Dong Vermine content creation is what I call my poop times

Vor 2 Monate
Cryptic Cocktails
Cryptic Cocktails

@Dong Vermine sounds better than “influencer” though at least

Vor 2 Monate
Dong Vermine
Dong Vermine

If someone called themselves a content creator to me in real life I would start fight or flight mode and I would choose fight I think

Vor 2 Monate
Cyril Lavedrine
Cyril Lavedrine

What is described in this video resonates hard with me. I decided not to play WoW's latest expansion because while I spent many years in this game as a healer, it breaks me on a fundamental level. I CANNOT NOT play efficiently, the *correct* way, because every missed opportunity at improving my performance by a fraction of a percent feels like a waste of everybody's time. After a while it becomes not only a chore but also a race against the clock to try and fill as many objectives as possible during a week, and the parts which I anticipate (dungeons) become dramatic when the group wipes, I blame myself for not keeping everyone alive and start planning how to spend the rest of the week improving. The players change the game, which in turn changes the players, alas usually not for the best.

Vor 2 Monate
Variance Hammer
Variance Hammer

One thing I genuinely wonder is how much of this is linked to gear. Would the hardcore raiding types (of which I was once one) still care about separating the wheat from the chaff if it didn't come with a bunch of mechanical bonuses? Or arena players, if someone who spent a lot of time in casual BGs could be at gear parity with them? Is it enough to be *better at the game*, or do they need the game to reward them for it?

Vor 2 Monate
banjiepixel
banjiepixel

I would assume that external rewards are very important for these kinds of players since the whole meta of high level WoW seems to be so focused on just the ingame numbers and very mechanically making them bigger. Many of the addons they use lower the skill floor but also make the skill ceiling lower and this means that those that are actually better at the game and have more skill are harder to separate from the less skilled players. It is a strange paradox where high level players want to minimize the skill needed to play at high level and it be easier to reach seemingly bigger feats but instead they really just make their gameplay less impressive by inflating the value of actual gameplay skill.

Vor 2 Monate
R Bain
R Bain

Any time I hear about the complex depth of effort and sheer immense volume of time that players put in to wow and other similar mmorpg games based on micro rewards to waste as much 'user' time as possible rather than entertain, I can't help but wonder what could have been achieved if all that time, focus and effort had been spent on something productive, even something closer to what was originally intended. I wonder how close these games are now to thinly veiled shot machines compared to the original concept of what they set out to do. Which I believe was to create an immersive role playing experience.

Vor 2 Monate
banjiepixel
banjiepixel

It is so crazy that people not only playing these huge time sink games as competitive games, they do basically the most time sinky way possible. It would be so much more logical to remove as much time requirement from the competitive play as possible. I mean who in their right mind would do a 100% speedrun of a JRPG? Competitive WoW need to focus on goals that minimize the time needed to reach them and maximise the effect of player strategy and skill because that is where the true optimized play exists.

Vor 2 Monate
Matt Suckow
Matt Suckow

Has Dan been watching Chart Party or Dorktown? This style reminds me of that, AND THAT IS NOT A BAD THING!

Vor 2 Monate
Mr. Wallet
Mr. Wallet

Something that often gets overlooked regarding paratext and the worship of skilled players: players can be absolutely brutal about any deviations in play from the expected standard, including ones which are objectively superior to the instrumental goals. There is an implicit assumption among most players that they are at the end of history, and that no further innovations in playing the game will be forthcoming, and even that all the relevant tricks of the patch that landed 10 days ago have already been completely figured out by the broader community; new strategies are perpetually impossible for anyone to discover, because surely someone would have thought of it by now. Anyone who is not at the absolute top of the recognized hierarchy is absolutely excoriated by allies if they attempt anything outside the "meta", regardless of lack of evidence that the unusual tactic won't work. This includes strategies so powerful that, should the "experts" discover them later, they become standard practice overnight, often requiring developer intervention to limit their dominance. But it doesn't matter how overpowered the strategy is; if it's not yet adopted by the elites and the community at large, it's is utterly unacceptable to attempt, even in relatively low-stakes situations; you are "throwing" if you dare to use something unfamiliar, unless you've earned the esteem of the entire community by being a truly top player. I suffered through this several times when I played League of Legends, where Gold-level players were utterly intolerant of any unorthodox tactics, and consistently threatened to report me to game administrators to be banned; only to have top players discover and adopt the same strategies weeks later. The worship of orthodoxy even at the expense of instrumental results is strange and fascinating to me... I'm sure it bears some psychological relationship to "that's the way we've always done it" thinking.

Vor 2 Monate
RHBR
RHBR

Nailed it.

Vor 12 Stunden
GeneralBolas
GeneralBolas

@Lysandro It's not that surprising. I don't play MMOs, but I've had something similar happen to me in a very different game: Factorio. This is a fairly open game, that allows you to build your ever-expanding factory any way you want. But for a while, I found myself essentially copying what certain guides put forth, thinking of those as just the way to solve a particular problem. The solutions worked and it kept me from turning my base into spaghetti. It was only when I forced myself to design those components myself did I find that... I liked my designs better. They're more compact and symmetrical, and they're even better at providing more throughput for certain components. I didn't throw out everything; there are some solutions that are just optimal or good enough. But I found interesting designs by just trying it myself. The thing about playing games is that people will take the path of least resistance. If people are used to just following a guide, that's what they'll do. It's easier to break out of this rut in a game like Factorio, which you can't really lose and the only thing something might cost is the cost of disassembling a bad design and rebuilding it. But when you've got 20 people hours into a raid, I imagine that gambling all of that time investment by trying some new strategy is not high on a lot of players' lists.

Vor 8 Tage
Lysandro
Lysandro

i found out that people have become unable to play without some famous internet guide person telling them what exactly to do. back in stromblood in FFXIV i remember a strat being found out that instead of standing precise places and looking a certain way, every1 can just stack on each other and use knockback prevention skill, but this failed to become adopted because that not what the guide says, and me trying to teach randoms to just stand at 1 place became a almost impossible task. honestly cant believe how many people kept failing such a easy thing cus its not what was on guideperson A's video

Vor 8 Tage
GeneralBolas
GeneralBolas

@Matthew Weber I understand and I can agree with that. But I was specifically explaining why it is that these people deify the paratext industry and dogmatically insist on following the lead of the best players: because it *works.* Its the path of least resistance. You want "the pleasure of finding things out," and more power to you. But many people are more interested in the goal than the path towards achieving that. And to some degree, I get the feeling that WoW has evolved to prioritize such play. If they're designing bosses *assuming* that players are using heavy mod support, then the bosses they're designing have to be difficult enough that solving them manually requires a *huge* time investment. A time investment that only professional and semi-pro players can reasonably invest. It's a feedback loop: if solving the game requires *days* of effort, most people will gravitate towards pre-made solutions... or just not play the game. Which leaves the player base as one that's divided between those who can afford to *spend* days to solve the game and those who feed off of those solutions. The rest of the potential playerbase just bounces off WoW.

Vor Monat
Matthew Weber
Matthew Weber

@GeneralBolas, You said "if you're in a middling guild, and you want to succeed, you could spend a lot of time trying to figure things out"... The first quote from this video that really hit me was, "It is taken as value-neutral and objectively true that expertise and success are the natural objectives of play and thus, the default mode of play that players owe to those around them. In other words, it's bad manners to be bad at Warcraft." It's the "and you want to succeed" that's the crux of things. I don't just want to succeed, I want to succeed on my own terms. Which is to say, I don't want to read a guide or install a mod and just follow instructions to win. My favorite thing about games is "the pleasure of finding things out", to borrow a great phrase. I don't think I'm alone in that but it's often just taken as a given that outcomes are more important than processes. More than anything, that's the attitude that makes a game feel like a second job to me. If I'm not permitted to enjoy the process of pursuing a goal and am expected to find joy only in the achievement of the goal, my motivation to play dwindles.

Vor Monat
Apophix
Apophix

I put this video on to chill and fall to sleep to, I'm woken up by Crusader yelling like 30min in and I'm so confused. That man just won't seem to go away.

Vor Monat
ranknonewarrior
ranknonewarrior

The greatest paladin to ever log in will always rise up

Vor Monat
Septemberl4d
Septemberl4d

I think one of the major missing factors in this video about the community of WoW top to bottom end of players is that you are forgetting that the community which primarily remains right now are a shedding of what use to be. A lot, if not most of the audience even at the casual level are people who are of the mind set which allows the proliferation of mods to be a key factor of playing the game. Which also in turn means anyone being introduced into the game are being groomed by those same people or shunned by them making them hate, then leave the game. Without trying to insult, because i really am not trying to insult but the core audience now who stick to this game are some what socially awkward people who use this game as a performance check to their life if not use this game as their one shining light to prove they are worth while humans on this earth. They are the ones who snap at other players and breed this toxic mindset to "how things should be done". For instance i joined a guild after being in another guild, our guild did one fight on heroic very different to the guild i just joined, we found a way which made it easier for our healers/range dps to perform in the fight to peak levels decreasing deaths on the run. When i moved to this new guild, they were trying to mimic a top end raid guilds method which disregarded the thing i learned with my other guild, the reason the trick they were doing was done by this top end raid guild was it cut the time of the fight by 45 seconds when already geared enough for the fight(this guild wasn't geared or skilled enough to bypass this mechanic) . I tried to help teach them how to do this trick which would have increased the fight fight time by just a little, but would have made it a much less chance to wipe fight for them. They lost it and yelled at me saying i was thinking i was better than the guild they got this idea from, asking why i wasn't in a top end guild if my method was so much better and that it would be harder for the people to learn (even though it would literally make the fight five times easier for the bad players). Basically i was yelled at and pushed out of their raid group purely because i was trying to help things run smoother but was going against the elites guides on how to do the fight. So one of the major issues this game has isn't mods.. it is more the misunderstanding of what the best of the best are doing and why they are doing it. They are doing it for world first, they are doing it to get it done as fast as possible. Yet the every day normal gamers take it and think they need to apply it to their own methods and playstyle which is detrimental to the rest of the people out there.

Vor 2 Monate
Joralion
Joralion

I disagree than the core audience use this game as a 'shining light to prove they are worth while humans on this earth'. A lot of players play casually and only do 'easier' content such as normal raid or low level mythic plus. As you go up to higher difficulties there is a transition area between the casual players and the more hardcore players where you get a lot of people that want to min max things but lack the skill required to understand why they are doing those strategies. At the very least that has been my experience playing the game.

Vor 22 Tage
ChocoRokk
ChocoRokk

Oh yeah? Well that's just like, your opinion man.

Vor Monat
CaiominTwin
CaiominTwin

Choice man, talking a mile a minute about things non-WoW players have never heard/seen before made some of your sections very difficult to follow

Vor 2 Monate
int3r4ct
int3r4ct

That story about Moistrainbow getting shit for not maxing out his keys hits home as someone who raided somewhat seriously for years when I was younger. I was in guilds where me and friends would be much higher on meters than other players, but we would get shit for not min-maxing our gear, or using a different set of talents than what the “meta” was from the top rated guilds or not playing as much or whatever. It always bothered me that the other members seemed to care more about following what the big boys were doing and following some “meta” or “rules”, and less than the actual results. Yes, I did not run dungeons every hour of every week, and sometimes I would forget flasks or food buffs and sometimes I would prefer non-meta talents or non-BiS gear pieces or whatever. But if I’m #3 on the DPS meter and everyone below me didn’t forget that stuff, is me not following the “meta” or the “rules” really the problem here? It really bothered some officers than I just did not care to sim craft every piece of gear I got. I knew what stats I needed, and had enough of an understanding of the mechanics to know which piece would generally be better. If it was something like a side grade that might give me an extra 0.5% more dps, I didn’t care. I’d just use whatever I think would be better. Always pissed me off that they would give me shit for this when I would kick their ass on meters without doing any of the simcraft bullshit. Famously, one of my friends, Jelly did not use a boss mod. He literally refused to tell anyone in the guild this, because he assumed they would just boot him. Jelly was a fucking savant at his class. This man was parsing like 98 percentile *consistently* but he just didn’t need a boss mod and didn’t want one. Eventually one of the officers learned that he didn’t have one and gave him shit, but he was #1 on the meters in every single fight, so they couldn’t exactly just boot him. Hope he’s still out there kicking ass and not giving a shit.

Vor 2 Monate
Жека Иванов
Жека Иванов

Oh, I get you. I remember playing mhw with people from some discord channel, and they would prefer losing a fight to one hit KOs instead of wearing one item that adds 50% or 100% more HP, because they could wear an item that adds at best 5% damage. Their argument was: eventually we will be so good at the game that we won't get hit at all, so not additional survivability is needed

Vor 19 Tage
hail
hail

@ImAraLUwUzer because people are playing wotlk, which is a game in which the meta has almost been entirely optimized to its full potential; to gain the all possible raid buffs and to stack the best dps classes possible, there aren't many ways to do it. Was the same with vanilla where fury warrior stacking was the best way to increase your parse/clear speed. Answer: Imp is dps loss for warlock. Arms warrior dps is quite literally the lowest in the game in naxx, but they can give two important raid buffs with one class. Sub rogues dps potential is far lower than assassination, and assassination brings basically no raid buffs, just like subtlety, at least none which can be replaced easily by a better dps class. If your question is "why bring an arms warrior at all" You actually don't have to, but it's nice to have one so your warlock can eek out some more dps and there doesn't have to be a combat rogue applying the phys debuff, which lets them play assassination, a slightly better single target dpser in naxx. What I'm getting at is that people who whine about their raid expecting them to perform better are playing with the wrong guild. Go play with a more recreational, casual guild. There is absolutely no shame in doing so. Imagine you're in a bowling league. (Bowling is a perfect example because if you want to talk about a game with a completely solved meta, look no further.) You join the leage because you kinda want to just yknow, go to bowl for fun, but would like it on a schedule. But your team wants to take it really seriously because that's what they enjoy. If your average game is like ~190 they would be mad, even though it's just a little local league. Some people enjoy pushing and winning, some want to just take it easy. If you feel like you are being treated unfairly by the bowling team who you think is taking it too seriously, why not go join another team or league altogether? I'm sick of hearing complaints like, "anyone who drives faster than me is crazy, and anyone who drives slower is a moron." Find the lane you are comfortable in and stop trying to make the world bend to your will all the time. If the raid you are with is taking it too seriously just laugh it off and find people you are compatible with.

Vor 26 Tage
ImAraLUwUzer
ImAraLUwUzer

@hail True, but WHY are raids bringing just ONE Arms warrior and prohibit any more than one? Why DOESN'T the Warlock pull out their Imp? Why does the Subtlety Rogue keep getting denied but the Assassination Rogue get priority? Best practices. In FFXIV, all non-melee classes do slightly less damage than melee on their own. However, all Ranged DPS can buff their teammates in more ways than their melee counterparts in general. This puts them at just about even in terms of rDPS (Raid-DPS) contribution. Likewise in WoW, the Arms Warrior + different Warlock summon will likely contribute more than some other class + Imp, even when not considering DPS alone. Even aside from DPS, I imagine casual raid groups like pugs still lock it to just ONE of certain talents/classes to optimize buffs and debuffs. Otherwise, if you brought two Shamans and can't overlap Bloodlust you're wasting a slot that could go to another raid buff like a Paladin aura. Even in casual play these practices are almost certainly enforced which is what the video also talked about.

Vor 28 Tage
WAH WAH WAH :)
WAH WAH WAH :)

I get flashbacks to trying to find a raid group in destiny. People will gatekeep you if your light\weapons aren't the most meta. I got booted from multiple raids for not having a gjallarjorn or using gear that was considered sub par by my teammates. Except I never caused any problems when I did get to raid, I always followed the rules and played my role. I only finished Crotas end with a group like 5 times, the rest I either did solo or got kicked.

Vor 29 Tage
Arthur Schopenhauer
Arthur Schopenhauer

@tebesa tebesaWhat is best practice in a game aside from having fun?

Vor Monat
Kimari91
Kimari91

I've played WoW for years on a casual basis. The strength of will to say "no" to the pressure the game exerts as a consequence of being designed by spreadsheeters is not to be underestimated. Separately, I'd be interested in an assessment of MMORPG culture in relation to gendered expectations and how these manifest as in- and out-group rituals.

Vor Monat
Little L
Little L

This was interesting to watch as someone who enjoys optimizing strategies and watching videos about all sorts of games discussing the 'best' ways to play them, even when I myself don't tend to try and play that way. Throughout the video it was always tempting to take any one point as an attack against people who do like optimizing in this manner, but ultimately it isn't about that, it's about social interaction effectively forcing others to adopt your own playstyle in a way that most people don't consider.

Vor 2 Monate
Drew Opal
Drew Opal

The way the community treats you like shit for being a noob is why I never played Wow for an extended amount of time

Vor Monat
Ken Barnes
Ken Barnes

Secret Base for nerds! Thanks for acknowledging the inspiration.

Vor Monat
Conrad Polloi
Conrad Polloi

this instrumental/free play dichotomy will sound very familiar to anyone who plays TF2. like WoW, tf2 has two distinct categories of players: the "tryhards" who play competitive matchmaking or MvM tours and get into the granular weeds of gameplay mechanics, and "frendlies", who hang out on community mod maps and trade servers and dick around with sprays and taunts. These two groups of players bring their respective playstyles to casual matchmaking games and often get into arguments with each other about the so-called "right way" to play the game. unlike WoW, it seems that there remains plenty of room in the community for both subcommunities, even after all these years of friction between them.

Vor Monat
The Seleuf
The Seleuf

At the end of the day, I much prefer the option of mods/addons than not having them. I still keep my addon list relatively small, tailored to how I prefer to play, not how any raid guild says I "should" play. ESO also supports addons and I love it. SWTOR doesn't support addons and it annoys me, because it means addons cannot cover areas the devs neglected (especially role-play areas.)

Vor 2 Monate
banjiepixel
banjiepixel

Maybe if the addons wouldn't be abused to gain competitive advantage, they would be actually a more commonly supported feature.

Vor 2 Monate
Elle Ciel
Elle Ciel

This being talked about made me so happy. I have a disability (I don't know what exactly) that causes me intense pain and loss of functiion in my right hand. I also am right-handed. I just...cannot "get good" at most MMORPGs. Some games have accessibility options succh a changing the keys you use or the speed of things like your camera but even then, having to rely on my left non-dominant hand means that I can't possibly reach high levels of expertise. This shouldn't exclude me from MMORPGs, but it does because I get screamed at so much I just quit playing. Congratulation MMORPS players for bullying disabled people out of your games. Feels like school all over again.

Vor 2 Monate
Elle Ciel
Elle Ciel

@ForOne814 Yes i thought of that, thank you 🤠 I also have problems to my left hand though, just different ones. I can still play!! Just not "as good" as is expected

Vor Monat
ForOne814
ForOne814

You can learn to play with your non-dominant hand, it's not that difficult. Like, come on, I tried playing CSGO with my left hand and it wasn't even a problem, and mouse movement is way more important in a competitive shooter compared to an MMO.

Vor 2 Monate
Qiae The Gamer
Qiae The Gamer

Learning that there is an actual field of study around the exploration of video games as a medium for interaction and storytelling: priceless

Vor Monat
Juniper Rodley
Juniper Rodley

@J S Yeah and Elden Ring's not even good at it lmao

Vor 2 Tage
J S
J S

@EQOAnostalgiaplenty of people do, you ever look at... Steam???

Vor 4 Tage
EQOAnostalgia
EQOAnostalgia

What's even more sad is nobody designs around it any longer. Outside of like... Elden Ring lol.

Vor 5 Tage
BoatLoadsofDope
BoatLoadsofDope

I think it's old WoW players who turned proffesors. Why not analyze something you spent a good amount of time on.

Vor 8 Tage
J S
J S

Oh yeah, it's relatively big too! If you know anybody with access to a university library or similar, you can find some interesting stuff through there :)

Vor Monat
Jimmie Hammel
Jimmie Hammel

I stopped playing WoW because I like being bad at it. Everyone was always harassing me to get my character to max level so I could raid with them, but I was enjoying exploring and soloing dungeons and collecting pets. I tried playing fully solo without a guild, but that was lonely.

Vor 2 Monate
reO reO
reO reO

@Jonathan Williams bruh, i can walk around in a townhub in Lost Ark and minding my own buisness and people inspect my character and gear and give me advice i never asked for. It just happens. People are as invested in sharing their wisdom as if they were jehovas witness. Some dude even wanted to make a discord call to explain stuff to me. When i am perfectly able to watch guides and stuff if i wanted to. I just dont.

Vor 2 Monate
Craigs List
Craigs List

All I see here is "I want to do it my way and everyone else wants to do it their way. That's what's wrong with WoW." It's fine if you want to do it different, but if you want to play an MMO you do have to.. you know, deal with people. I used to play different also, because I hated metas. But I also understood that required finding ways to be useful and viable to groups of other people. I played holy when shadow was the meta and sure I'd get kicked for a shadow build if they wanted that. So? There were other odd build players that I would friend because our builds worked well together. I also found creative ways to be useful. I spent a lot of time in groups trying to convince other players to trust me to do dungeons in a way they had never done. I got better at teaching that way. I would carry the hell out of some groups, and the worse they were the harder they were to carry and the less they appreciated it. That's role playing the underdog hero though. I enjoyed it or I would've played something else. It kind of just sounds like you wanted the game to be single player.

Vor 2 Monate
Jonathan Williams
Jonathan Williams

@G Nattrass I don't really get it, though. If you're bad and acknowledge you're bad, what content are you trying to do that people are feeling the need to give you feedback? I just can't see a world where you're trying to do group content designed for your skill level and other members in the group are invested enough to try and coach you. I've done LFR, even when it's going shit it's still silent. I've done +2 through +15 keys with randoms of all sorts of varying skill sets... generally there isn't any feedback given outside of your occasional rager. I think the only place this will happen is when folks try and swim outside their lane and create friction on content that lives and dies off success, like timing keystones specifically. And honestly, if you're joining a random internet stranger's success-dependent content and sandbag the key, you're delusional if you don't think you deserve some level of feedback regardless of the feedback's validity and accuracy.

Vor 2 Monate
GhostCassette
GhostCassette

You might enjoy FFXIV friend. There's a ton of non-raid stuff to do (including a main story that doesn't get retconned every patch like wow seems to), and most people are chill about explaining mechanics

Vor 2 Monate
Jimmie Hammel
Jimmie Hammel

@Naoto Shirogane yeah, exactly... When I used to play, I liked playing as a discipline priest. (2007ish) At the time, there was exactly 1 way to "correctly" play a priest, and that was shadow. Later it became acceptable to play holy as well, but discipline was "wrong." And people would constantly tell me it was wrong. And I KNEW that. I just liked it better. It fit my play style. People constantly trying to explain why my choices were bad made the game really boring for me. I knew the reasons. I understood the reasons. I just wanted to play the game the way it was fun for me without constant annoying input from people trying to make me have fun the way THEY would.

Vor 2 Monate
sappho's scullery maid
sappho's scullery maid

beautiful essay as always dan

Vor Monat
Bernie Margolis
Bernie Margolis

What really irks me about players who brag that only hard content is engaging content is that those same players turn around and do everything in their power to make the content as easy as possible. It leads to a toxic cycle that goes like this: 1. Content is deemed to be too hard, so players min-max their gear and develop addons to make it easy. 2. The same players then go running to Blizzard complaining that the content has become too easy. 3. Blizzard agrees and ratchets up the difficulty, driving away players while disproportionately retaining the best players who relish the challenge. 4. Naturally, with a better pool of players the content is easier to complete, and the cycle repeats from step 1. One concept this video danced around without outright stating it is that back in the days when strategy guides were considered cheating, most game bosses were designed to provide a challenge for undergeared/underleveled but skillful players while being faceroll easy for geared/leveled players. This wasn't just WoW bosses. You could beat Ganon in Zelda with only four hearts and a Wooden Sword, but he was much easier to beat if you took the time and grind up the 20 hearts and the Master Sword. This was the climate in which Vanilla was designed. This idea that you had to min-max your gear in order to succesfully beat a boss was uncommon, as was the idea that a boss should provide a challenge to players who had optimally min-maxed their characters. In contrast, if you suggest on any modern gaming forum or subreddit that bosses shouldn't be that challenging once you've outgeared them, you'll be ostracized as a toxic player who promotes bads with their toxic positivity.

Vor 2 Monate
banjiepixel
banjiepixel

It is very hard to understand the type of instrumental player that seems to exist in WoW. One that would say only hard content is worth encaging, while doing so many things to make that content easier to beat. It is like they do not want actual challenge and just want to brag how easily and fast they finished latest content known to be hard.. As a fighting game player, strategy guides ever being considered to be cheating seems just insane to me. It is just a source of information and just spoils the fun of the discovering things on your own, just like having a friend that has played much more than you would. It does not really matter, especially if you plan to continue playing the game beyond just completing it once. Also min-maxing is perfectly valid gameplay style but I really do not understand why it is the main form of instrumental play in a game like WoW. And why make standards for it be beyond what a possible for regular group of humans during normal unaltered gameplay without external tools.

Vor 2 Monate

Nächster

World of Warcraft Classic And What We Left Behind

40:39

The Art of Editing and The Snowman | Folding Ideas

41:40

Contrepreneurs: The Mikkelsen Twins

1:15:38

Contrepreneurs: The Mikkelsen Twins

Folding Ideas

Aufrufe 1 400 000

We Are Officially SELLING OUR HOUSE!!!

13:54

We Are Officially SELLING OUR HOUSE!!!

The LaBrant Fam

Aufrufe 702 027

HUNTER Mimiron Trash Skip Guide

5:48

Harry Potter

1:45:50

Harry Potter

Shaun

Aufrufe 4 200 000

Disney's FastPass: A Complicated History

1:43:00

Disney's FastPass: A Complicated History

Defunctland

Aufrufe 15 000 000

Cooking Food On The Internet For Fun And Profit

21:38

The Art of Storytelling and The Book of Henry

39:22

The Art of Storytelling and The Book of Henry

Folding Ideas

Aufrufe 1 400 000

A Lukewarm Defence of Fifty Shades of Grey

1:05:33

A Lukewarm Defence of Fifty Shades of Grey

Folding Ideas

Aufrufe 2 400 000

Müge Anlı ile Tatlı Sert | 6 Şubat 2023 Pazartesi

1:31:49

Müge Anlı ile Tatlı Sert | 6 Şubat 2023 Pazartesi

Müge Anlı ile Tatlı Sert

Aufrufe 1 223 865

My dog stayed with me in the hospital!

0:39

My dog stayed with me in the hospital!

Magnus The Therapy Dog

Aufrufe 5 184 109

Leute wir haben ein Problem… :/

0:26

Leute wir haben ein Problem… :/

Emiirbayrak

Aufrufe 355 032