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Taken from JRE #1397 w/S.C. Gwynne: de-film.com/v-video-Iq8Ss9yg6bo.html
Shit West Texas is still a frontier in most respects...........I walked across the Rio Grande into Mexico for a few hours when I lived out there. Theres an old Fransciscan Mission on the banks of the river across from Lajitas, and a mass grave site of stone covered graves slightly west of it on the divide.
The Comanches drove the Apaches out of Texas.
Information no longer taught in American public schools
Doesn’t feel right for a white guy to talk about the brutality of Native American. He could be the most innocent guy but it comes across as justification
I read his book several years ago and own a hard copy. It's a really good read, he brings the history to life.
If you plan to read this book, check out some of the negative reviews at Amazon's website. The book is a fascinating read, but it has a good number of errors and a racist viewpoint to boot. And/or search for professional reviews by historians.
Great clip * Im 3/4 Comanche 1/4 Kiowa * frm Oklahoma yes it was Savage back then but it meant Survival* so I can appreciate how far we've come* strive to Stay Sacred Strong * but love the modern ways * 🤓 💙💚💛
Read the dark and bloody river
I’m a middle-age college student trying to wrap up my Bachelor’s degree one class at a time. Just last week I dropped out of an American Lit class after one meeting because the professor, a Native American, planned to teach the course from an “Indigenous person’s perspective.” The syllabus and his introductory lecture made it clear he planned to paint a portrait of Native American’s as faultless, white people as barbarians. I appreciate this video because it answers the question that went thru my mind: You’re telling me if it hadn’t been for “us,” that Native Americans wouldn’t have industrialized, slaughtered one another, or even fallen victim to different colonizers who might have treated them even worse? I’m not defending what occurred; I’m merely glad there are people out there willing to admit there are two sides to every story.
If you are truly interested in the subject matter, "Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee", by Dee Brown covers a great deal of the history of the plains Indians. and you can probably get a copy for nothing.
Native Americans were just like every other human from everywhere on earth. They over hunted, killed their opposition in gruesome fashion, looked to control lands rich for hunting and gathering, human sacrifice and I'm sure cannibalism took place. As for over hunting, Natives hunted into extinction half of the mammals species in North America, half, yes half.
My grandmother was full Kiowa. They were allies of the Comanche and I can attest they were not the nicest people. But back then they were all at war and we can look back and say its all wrong now, but back then that was the norm.
Also fun fact, Most Comanche today don't consider Quanah the savior he is depicted in history. He didn't work for what was best for the tribe but more for what was best for his family.
Wow - shocking to see discussion of some of the actual truth about a nonwhite people being anything less than absolutely innocent 'victims' of the 'evil whites.' Too bad it won't last before the usual whining, excuses and usual white-hating rhetoric prevails.
Message to Joe. Look into the history of the wars U.S. fought against the Seminoles in Florida. Talk about fasinating. Wow !
What's with the juvenile action of adults now day's answering every Question with the word " SO" before they answer? Its so freaking annoying.
Only after they've killed the last buffalo and poisoned the last river will white man realise you can't eat money. - Sitting Bull.
@Drewski J when you state a fact like that you should at least put forth some evidence.... like a book, otherwise you don't look smart, you just look like someone who lies to anger people on the internet.
Ironic coming from a race of people who hunted into extinction half of the mammal species in North America in their 12k years of living in this land.
Muh peaceful red Indians
never forget the Spanish and then Mexicans had fought these tribes and to some extent integrated some of these people, great warriors in good and bad, white settlers engaged the indians towards the later part of their end. By no means did white texans conquer these tribes, these tribes had been at war from day one against other tribes and Spanish/Mexicans. The texas frontier was never a white frontier until the American nation annexed the lands and by then the comache were directionally on a decline. Texas was forged and peaked in tribal strength before the white settlers set roots in this new land.
The indian was the first land thief, just not the last. That's how humanity rolls man.
The very name "Sioux" means snake, because they were seen as untrustworthy by other indian tribes, not all crimes were committed by white people in America
@Horvat Lovren i don't know why Cortez gets so much shit for what happened, he wanted treasure, it was those smaller tribes of natives who wanted revenge on the Aztecs after meeting white men with metal shells and rode strange deer into battle who seemed unstoppable. If your family kept being enslaved and sacrificed every few years you'd take revenge on those responsible surely?
Read about the Aztec savages and what they did. They practised slavery on neighbouring tribes and would sacrifice children en mass to please their gods. Thankfully Hernan Cortes and his conquistadors wiped them out.
I love the way all these morons claim to be part Comanche in 2020. The reality is they were just about exterminated from the planet man woman and child. I would venture to say there might be 40 people alive today with maybe 1/8 comanche blood in their veins. I guess they are all joe Rogan fans
But the super woke people told me they were peace loving people who were never violent until the mean white man came.
I don't understand... We all know the natives lived in peace and harmony until the brutal warmongering europeans arrived..
I don’t know about all this, it’s easy to say whatever the fuck you want now that they’re gone. It’s been a long time, those Indians fought each other, yes, it was brutal, yes but to think they didn’t have fear, or sadness or empathy? Bullshit. Most Indians pray to the spirits of nature, the animals they kill and eat, if they did something, it was for a reason. Not out of anger or hate, like us today but necessity. Fuck this guy, I studied enough Native American history to know that those squatters in Texas can suck ass, fucken inbreeds.
Now from the other side of history. Hitler was a great admirer of the United States on their treatment of the "lower" races. And was somewhat perplexed when the US was concerned on their treatment of the Jews. The North American Indian Holocaust -Kahentinetha Horn The "final solution" of the North American Indian problem was the model for the subsequent Jewish holocaust and South African apartheid Why is the biggest holocaust in all humanity being hidden from history? Is it because it lasted so long that it has become a habit? *It's been well documented that the killing of Indigenous people in the Western Hemisphere since the beginning of colonization has been estimated at 120 million. Yet nobody wants to speak about it.* Today historians, anthropologists and archaeologists are revealing that information on this holocaust is being deliberately eliminated from the knowledge base and consciousness of North Americans and the world. A completely false picture is being painted of our people as suffering from social ills of our own making. It could be argued that the loss of 120 million from 1500 to 1800 isn't the same as the loss of 6 million people during World War II. Can 6 million in 1945 be compared to 1 million in 1500? School children are still being taught that large areas of North America are uninhabited as if this land belongs to no one and never did. The role of our ancestors as caretakers is constantly and habitually overlooked by colonial society. Before the arrival of Europeans, cities and towns here were flourishing. Mexico City had a larger population than any city in Europe. The people were healthy and well-fed. The first Europeans were amazed. The agricultural products developed by the Indigenous people transformed human nutrition internationally. The North American Indian holocaust was studied by South Africa for their apartheid program and by Hitler for his genocide of the Jews during World War II. *Hitler commented that he admired the great job Americans had done in taking care of the Indian problem.* *The policies used to kill us off was so successful that people today generally assume that our population was low. Hitler told a past US President when he remarked about their maltreatment of the Jewish people, he mind your own business. You're the worst.* Where are the monuments? Where are the memorial ceremonies? Why is it being concealed? The survivors of the WWII holocaust have not yet died and already there is a movement afoot to forget what happened. Unlike post-war Germany, North Americans refuse to acknowledge this genocide. Almost one and a quarter million Kanien'ke:haka (Mohawk) were killed off leaving us only a few thousand survivors. North Americans do not want to reveal that there was and still is a systematic plan to destroy most of the native people by outright murder by bounty hunters and land grabbers, disease through distributing small pox infested blankets, relocation, theft of children who were placed in concentration camps called "residential schools" and assimilation. As with the Jews, they could not have accomplished this without their collaborators who they trained to serve their genocidal system through their "re-education camps". The policy changed from outright slaughter to killing the Indian inside. Governments, army, police, church, corporations, doctors, judges and common people were complicit in this killing machine. An elaborate campaign has covered up this genocide which was engineered at the highest levels of power in the United States and Canada. This cover up continues to this day. When they killed off all the Indians, they brought in Blacks to be their labourers. In the residential schools many eye witnesses have recently come forward to describe the atrocities. They called these places "death camps" where, according to government records, nearly half of all these innocent Indigenous children died or disappeared as if they never existed. In the 1920's when Dr. Bryce was alarmed by the high death rate of children in residential schools, his report was suppressed. *The term "Final Solution" was not coined by the Nazis. It was Indian Affairs Superintendent, Duncan Campbell Scott, Canada's Adolph Eichmann, who in April 1910 plotted out the planned murder to take care of the "Indian problem".* "It is readily acknowledged that Indian children lose their natural resistance to illness by habitating so closely in these schools, and that they die at a much higher rate than in their villages. But this alone does not justify a change in the policy of this Department, which is geared towards the final solution of our Indian Problem". (DIA Archives, RG 10 series).
Unfortunately this interview seems to have only emboldened racist morons. Take a look at the way Europeans treated people. And then take a look at how EVERYBODY treated each other throughout human history. It was a tortuous bloodbath.
God Bless Texas!
"The Enemies of Christopher Columbus: Answers to Critical Questions About the Spread of Western Civilization" by Thomas A. Bowden
Lotta books are gonna be sold I might buy one myself, I’m not too familiar with the southern Indian tribes
I’m Comanche and when I can’t drink liquor or i might scalp somebody
I'm 1/2 Comanche. My family left the reservations about 1900, and have prospered ever since. Typically, the Comanche who still live on the reservations do not accept me as one of them, because I'm 1/2 white. But then again, I look white, so I've done well in life.
Read it like hoards of others. Good book.
It's ridiculous to think that any tribal nation, regardless of whether it's on the American (North, South, etc.) or African continent, were peaceful in nature. Tribes were ruthless towards each other, raids, taking slaves, raping, etc. It happened in Europe...it's human nature!! History is brutal, you learn it, you learn from it, but you live in the present. Unfortunately, folks learn history and then take it to the point where they're now the victims of it...get a grip.
@Drewski J Dammit, I'm a glutton for punishment...haha.
How dare you come up in here with some common sense.
The Zulu and many African kingdoms simply killed all boys of fighting age, which was really teens, and gave the women away as bounty, to be slaves. The benefit being, there's no progeny to take revenge. Imagine if the Europeans had done that in Africa?
J S Right shithead it was the Afticans who FORCED white people to engage in slavery huh dumb shit?!! Did they also get a cut of the MILLIONS, engage in the murders/rapes and brutality too fuckwad?!! And did they also FORCE white people in America to start a war to keep slavery going bitch?!!!
If I was born Comanche in that time my name would be Dark Stick
Joe "smoke em peace pipe" Rogan.
Past reality is harsh, so be thankful our grandfathers helped create a country that has opportunity for everyone! ❤🇺🇸💪
Am I the only one not quite buying this story? Yes I'm sure there were a few "savage" tribes, but to say most of them were like this? Hmmmm...
@Drewski J OK, by brutal you mean committing torture and murder? If so, all tribes? Sources? School system - didn't even come close to telling the truth about the natives, they got genocided. THAT is brutal...
@Drewski J it may be hard to find but check out the comments of "Radford University" from 3 days ago.
@Drewski J I've seen that comment or at least that sentiment. When I get to a computer I will cut and paste. The idea is that because the Plains Indians were violent that excuses wars of conquest against them.
@Shantonu Basu who is here attempting to justify what Europeans did?
@Drewski J Doesn't justify what Europeans did to them, even if it is true, which is dubious.
I’m Canadian so I see you all being deeply committed to 177who gives a fuck
Stuff school never taught anyone
Reading the comments is giving me cancer... He's not saying Europeans were not brutal He's just saying the Comanches weren't innocent.
@Drewski J He's not saying they're not. Read again. Slowly.
Who here is saying that Euro's were not brutal? I've searched through 100 or so comments and not one person said as much.
CrowSader yeah but feelings
just like the mongols.
A little known fact is that FT Sill, OK was built in the hope that the presence of a calvary unit in the area would deter the tribes from slaughtering each other. It wasn’t completely successful. Edit - I forgot to add that the mention of Quanah Parker made me think of Ft Sill. He surrendered there and lived out the remainder of his life in the Ft Sill area.
Now it's cool to be savage af. Oh the irony.
This man is just inventing the history of the Comanche.
ALL HISOTRY IS INVENTED - grow up and read a book.
The epic novel, Texas, by James Michener has some brutal stories of indians.
Just one little Joe Rogan podcast just destroyed years of leftist indoctrination from Marxist controlled schools.
The whole idea of "America was stolen from the native people" is ridiculous, because those bastards killed each other and "stole" land from each other long before any European stepped foot onto American soil. They also kept slaves and pretty much every other "human rights violation" that woke libs speak out against when the rest of the world was doing it.
@Radford University Fair enough. Curiously, you're tossing around words like "libs" yet it turns you you are the moral relativist. Be well.
@Shantonu Basu well, we can agree to disagree, and that's better than throwing insults at ppl, haha
@Radford University You are a moral relativist then. I am not and I see no reason to be.
@Shantonu Basu You just nailed it, except you're trying to apply today's "logic" with yesterday's common practice. Doesn't make it right, but you're judging entire sets of events outside of the context of those events, and you can't say that you wouldn't have done the same thing if you were alive then. I'm merely pointing out (in my original post) that this guys expertise on one Indian nation being "not the noble native" was, in fact, very common
@Radford University Sorry, but what you are saying is laughable. According to you, because the Prussians were really warlike, it's fine to kill them and steal their land. If that not what you are saying, then please explain how I have misinterpreted what you have said.
Lmao this is all bs!!! Some true but barley any... this is another white guy who is profiting of off natives from fake stories.. this is complete bs. Joe Rogan kinda thought u were better and smarter of a man. Then to believe what a white man is telling you about natives.
WHERE IS HUNTER?????????
That is a good book .
Brilliant. Finally someone with the guts and integrity to say it like it was. The indigenous people of America were people just the same, brutal and flawed. It's not s good versus evil argument like the Marxist historians make out. Read 'Black Robe' based on Jesuit missionary accounts to learn how brutal the Iroquois and other tribes behaved in Quebec area. If anything European culture saved the Indians from anhililating each other.
@nelsano3 You are acting like there is some conspiracy to sanitize Native American history. There isn't. We name helicopter gunships after certain Native American tribes because those tribes had a well-deserved reputation for violence. Everyone know the Apache were warlike. So don't like there's some "Marxist historans" out there that are hiding the truth. That's silly. What liberals (and I'm one) point out is that it's wrong to steal land, displace people, and attempt genocides. The victims of injustice don't have to be themselves perfect to still be victims of injustice.
@Shantonu Basu I'm from Anglo Saxon and Norman heritage. When William the Conquerer invaded and took control of England, where I live, he launched a campaign called the 'Harrying' of the North. Every man, woman, child, farm animal, farming implement was destroyed. 100 years later the Doomsday inventory book recorded areas still as 'waste'. Where is the sympathy for that? This is the way of the world. People are people we all the same, flawed and in need of salvation. To suggest otherwise is rascist. This man's book is what we need to be doing, talking honestly about issues and not bullshitting.
Nonsense. People fight. Does the violence of the Thirty Years War make you think that Europeans were going to "anhiliate" each other?
We all know that the Indians were so peaceful and sensitive that even some litter on the side of the road brings them to tears.
Even back then they understood the importance of the natural world and its resources. And they respected it. That's the point.
So much for the myth of the "Peaceful" Indians we all heard about in school.... YIKES!
@Aaron Maness Doesn't make it right.
Shantonu Basu People get conquered. It’s happened for all of human history.
@David Pfeifer Maybe. Maybe not. It doesn't make what was done to them any less wrong.
Shantonu Basu Peaceful tribes were the minority for sure, very few northern tribes were like in New York and PA but most were a brutal violent people
@RCJH2019 Yeah but you are lying. You were never told that the plains Indians were peaceful. As for justice, yeah of course some of the Native people were violent. So, according to you, that makes _anything_ that happens to them okay? See how silly that sounds? Also, you are grouping very different people together. The native population of Cuba was very different from the native population of Central Mexico who were very different from the population in what is now New Jersey. So because the Comanche were really violent, that excuses genocidal wars against the Wampanoag?
The Sun rises in the East and sets in the West.
We studied Quanah Parker in school in Tejas
I want to see a Joe Rogan and Seth Rogan buddy-comedy movie right now.
~paint with all the colors of the wind~
Cincy Ann Parker. Died a lonely lady and is buried in Tyler Tx. Awesome book.
One of the best books that I have ever read is "Indian Depredations in Texas" A written documentary of Indian attacks on the Texas frontier!
@Dan - You want to try to establish that I am interested in limiting what history says about Native people, I am not. I understand that Comanche were perhaps the most violent people who ever lived anywhere, and I often use Gwynne's book to establish that when I speak with politically correct types. While a litany of violent acts is a useful record, if it is an person's idea of "One of the best books that I have ever read ..." then as I stated to start: that person not read sufficiently to know what constitutes a great book and is perhaps titillated by violence. I have read Victor Klemperer's two volume, "I Will Bear Witness." It is daily diary entries for over 10 years of his life in Germany 1934-46. It records endless violence against Jews, plus daily life, in about 1500 pages of very tedious detail. It is an important historical record, but it is not a great book at least because it is not a good read. I would suggest to you that what you read was also an important record. And that is all.
@John Smith That's a very narrow and antagonistic view of such a piece of literature and from my comment quite honestly. From these types of historical accounts, which are quite valuable, we can gain a picture and an insight into how people live, work and interact with other groups. While it may not paint a flattering picture and you may not like to see that unflattering picture painted, if it is based in fact, better to have the facts than supposition and emotion to go on. These type of interactions occurred on both sides on a regular basis, so it helps to create a real picture instead of the false, all settlers are bad mentality. It's real history and facts, deal with it.
@Dan I don't disapprove of any topic, that's why libraries exist. The fact is, the 700 pg book is a collection of violent Indian attacks, nothing more. It is therefore narrow litany like a police blotter, and like a police blotter it is not a great read. It is not ethnographic or a full tale of a historical period like Mr Gwynne's book. For that reason I suggest that one must have limited reading to feel this is: "One of the best books that I have ever read." You may also feel TV shows where people constantly point guns at each other are "great drama." I do not share that view either.
@Dan - I don't disapprove of any topic, that's why libraries exist. The fact is, the 700 pg book is a collection of violent Indian attacks, nothing more. It is therefore narrow litany like a police blotter, and like a police blotter it is not a great read. It is not ethnographic or a full tale of a historical period like Mr Gwynne's book. For that reason I suggest that one must have limited reading to feel this is: "One of the best books that I have ever read." You may also feel TV shows where people constantly point guns at each other are "great drama." I do not share that view either.
Just how many degree's do you have???? What's your beef???
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