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*Listening to this was both funny and frustrating!!* Why this confusion for a flight which is intended to go directly to the east and cross the pond towards Europe?
@Ken Clark Unfortunately the full recording (including the pilots tequesting and receiving an IFR clearance by Ground) has been deleted from the source where I found it. But I know that particular case quite well. They got their IFR clearance, asked to depart from the longer runway due to TOW and were lead to believe they would pick up IFR after departing VFR- Then chaos followed.
@d00t where is that recording and information
@d00t amazing how many people choose a narrative without bothering to research the facts. ATC was entirely in the wrong here. The pilot had no way of knowing that ATC tower didn’t have all the correct information at hand, as they should have done, the pilot had done everything correctly. I imagine that he thought there was a reason for where ATC were sending him, until he realised they were asking the impossible from him, and he didn’t want to land, he wanted to depart..get out of the airspace altogether. It’s a very fortunate thing that nobody got killed in this balls up.
People need to know the full story here: „The facts are available by listening to the feed from Ground. An IFR clearance to Athens was given and flight plan filed. Vistajet 868 asked to depart via the opposite runway due to the aircraft being too heavy for the active runway (obstacles on departure flight path). Ground agreed this could be done only as a VFR departure. When transferred to the Tower frequency the ground controlled did not pass on the details to them correctly. Consequently, the Tower thought they intended to reland. The aircraft was then asked to manoeuvre in an area too small for it due to it’s heavy weight and minimum speed.“
@Virginia viola I’ll disagree sorry
Yikes, very bad airmanship! He just sounded like he wanted to do a circuit. Obvs just trying to jump queue for ifr clearance
That VistaJet turned into THREE jets. 848, 858 and 868. I'm not sure the controller knew which one he was talking to.
The facts are available by listening to the feed from Ground. An IFR clearance to Athens was given and flight plan filed. Vistajet 868 asked to depart via the opposite runway due to the aircraft being too heavy for the active runway (obstacles on departure flight path). Ground agreed this could be done only as a VFR departure. When transferred to the Tower frequency the ground controlled did not pass on the details to them correctly. Consequently, the Tower thought they intended to reland. The aircraft was then asked to manoeuvre in an area too small for it due to it’s heavy weight and minimum speed.
What the heck is this? Flight Simulator online session?
The gulf stream didn’t cause chaos the ATC that thought a gulf stream wanted to stay in closed traffic for touch and goes did 😆😁
All the pattern talk should have prompted some clarification from the pilot
Just a bunch of professionals trying to negotiate through a miscommunication.
I blame the tower not the pilot
why didnt the controller just get him clear of the airspace instead he kept turning him into other airspace lol
Those high dollar pax got the ride of their life in the first ten minutes.
Turkish airline pilots, lol? 😜
Painful to listen to, I thought Phoenix airspace was tough until I heard this
The pilot didn’t think to question the controller when he said turn base and I’ll call your base?
That’s a bombardier in the thumbnail, not a gulfstream.
It clearly says vistajet on it lol
That’s a Global in your thumbnail, not a Gulfstream
This interaction should be used as an example of how a Captain, First Officer or GA pilot should always maintain there composure when speaking to ATC. Regardless of the situation, An ATC’s job is to provide a safe, orderly flow of traffic. ATC controllers are human, so frustration and anxiety can creep into their brain as well. The pilot handled the complete interaction perfectly by not taking anything personal. Well done, sir!
Jeebus, ATC said everything except Simon says.
How long has this guy even flown international much less IFR
That controller makes my blood pressure rise.
Controller is to say what everyone knows - this pilot is dumb.
Is it me or did the ATC fuck it all up? Even I knew the 868 was departing. Why did the ATC want to land him??? Yeesh. I can't believe in 2021 with all the computerized technology we have they still haven't figured out how to automate departures and landings.
Gulfstream? More like a GLEX
Definitely needs to copy a phone number !
Read the top comments. This was entirely ATC's fault. R
Imagine you just want some gyros and your pilots turning around like a Mary go round
I’m not a pilot, but I love these.
A carefully balanced ballet that can be deadly. It's absolutely mindblowing at times.
Thumbnail is a global express, not a gulf stream
Taht was a Global 6000. VistaJet does not operate Gulfstreams
Pattern work in a Gulfstream. Best 40k ever spent on landing practice.
going by the massive cockup by ground and what information tower had on 868 tower did a really good job. That being said: this occasion is going to be great teaching material!
Why file VFR then IFR in the air/ Dumb
8:29 "The aircraft continued on his 11-hour flight to Athens normally." HIS? Now we assume genders of aircraft!? I hope you have changed your ways or at least your terminology for 2021, VASAviation!
Nobody gives a crap about your preferred pronouns. Carry on.
Pilot deserves a medal for flying through this and keeping his cool.
@Matt B even tho they had filed IFR already, they did not pick up an IFR clearance from the ground. The pilots are wrong for doing this. As per your comment about the ground controller not passing along the info to tower, that’s not the case bc he was squawking VFR and did not have an IFR squawk code. Also while departing, the tower controller did try to confirm the pilots intentions and they failed to communicate properly to the tower controller. The pilots are clearly in the wrong and should definitely be given a phone number to talk to the FAA so that they can learn US NAS procedures. It’s not that hard to pick up IFR on the ground at a towered airport.
@Matt B My bad if I missed that detail. That adds a whole new dimension to the charlie foxtrot. That wasn't clear from the video, and the title says the Gulfstream caused the chaos, so that's why I thought he was being rather unreasonable. What a mess.
@Beena Plumber Thats not the case, look at the posts above, the Vistajet did file IFR flight plan but was too heavy so they said depart VFR and once airborne youll be set up for IFR, ground failed to relay that to tower and the pilot had no idea why they were being turned around
Which pilot? The guy who took off for Greece without a flight plan or IFR clearance and expected to file it with the busy local controller while in the pattern? The guy who confirmed he was VFR before leaving the ground? I guess it does take nerves of steel to fly when you're that low-functioning and self-obsessed. I'm glad they're all safe.
"right turn now, 1500 and inside the lake"
Been flying for the last 13 years, never saw anything even close to this.
I'm fascinated by aviation but know nothing about it. I know I could never think quickly enough to do what a pilot or controller needs to do-I think that's the root of my fascination with it. I'm glad to know no aircraft were harmed in the making of this video.
I thought he was trying to depart? Controller has him circling the area like he's waiting to land.
Controller somehow got the idea he was trying to do pattern work / touch and go (in a fully loaded business jet).
I suppose it would be too mean to..... Vista jet, understand need to stay airborne 5 hours. Proceed to xx intersection and hold. Expect further clearance in 5 hours...
that stuff happens in aviation , once I departed and the ATC calls to vector me back to the downwind , I asked the pilot monitoring to tell the ATC the go around traffic needs the downwind vectors and we need to remain on the departure leg , the ATC just apologized and recleared us to remain on the SID , it's common for the controllers to get mixed up which and whom is going where. Now this VISTA JET got a VFR departure which was enough to trigger their attention that there is a confusion with the ATC .
At least this pilot is very very calm and fast responsive💯even tho he was so close with that 757! 👍
Knowing the area, this asshole took off in MVFR/IFR conditions, in busy Seattle airspace, after taking off from Boeing Field, and expected to be given an airborne IFR clearance? Then had the nerve to request a left turn while on final into BFI, which would've turned them into Renton airspace. WTF doesn't begin to describe how dangerous this entire situation was... Also, the non-relay of ground with pertinent information. WOW. (That deserves a paddlin')
Wasn’t there a clue in the transmissions between ATC and the pilot : “pattern altitude and downwind leg”. Surely that would have indicated someone staying in the circuit.
What in hell are they doing? I don't understand.
Pilots had an IFR plan submitted and confirmed, but ground control moved them onto an alternate runway for weight issues. That departure was VFR only, so ground control said the pilots would pick up IFR airborne. Not usual, but not uncommon. However, ground control didn't communicate the change of plans to the tower or departure ATC, who figured the aircraft was doing circuits and gave instructions as such that would be fine for an almost empty aircraft doing circuits, but the aircraft in question was fueled for an 11 hour flight with passengers so wasn't manoeuvring as the controller expected.
74MA sounds suspiciously like AirforceProud95....
I would of been like "okay fuck it, VFR to the east" and pick up IFR once I'm outside of that cluster fuck lol.
Pretty good job imo by the ATC guy and the pilot to manage the situation pretty effectively, given the situation.
The jet didn’t really cause chaos, it was already there he was just flying through it lol
im confused about why ATC kept steering 868 into traffic
@Sky Dive wrong. ATC messed this up.
@Sky Dive it was explained better in another comment. Basically they filed for IFR but needed to take off in the opposite direction as filed due to their weight. They were cleared to take off VFR and transition to IFR but the tower never got this information. Goes to show how such a tiny bit of miscommunication can become so dangerous
Because the tried to pull a fast one, getting airborne ahead of their slot and once airborne, demanding their IFR traffic slot which hadn’t been assigned yet.
Wow, tower jacked this up beyond comprehension 🤦🏼♂️
What the... I don’t even.... ok,.... what was that about.... like.... huh
The ATC sounded really stressed out maybe to many working hours. I felt for the guy!
If I was one of the pilots I wouldn't have been so polite, stressful situation imposed on them (multiple times over) then to continue on after that, props to them.
So many people hanging the pilots out to dry when it was in fact ATC at fault.
this ATC fubarized the whole thing, this was not a really difficult situation . I hope he got some remedial training after this
Let that be a lesson!!! Always get your IFR on the ground!!!! Idiots
They had their IFR they requested another runway because of their weight.
Corporate pilots ... just clueless 🤦🏻♂️
@Patrick Watson said the Yankee “Trump genius”
I thought the Vista Jet guys were complete morons then you made them look like rock stars with your comment.
More like the tower trolling the gulfstrem all day long. They made the jet hold over a busy area low altitude, tight turns with all kind of alarms and shouting. Jet did was was asked, I though that the pilot was about to outburst insults anytime, very professional to withstand unnecesary presure.
I noticed that the pilots decided to swap who was talking to the tower half way through. Wonder if the first guy said he was about to say something unprofessional.
Just goes to show... companies hiring pilots who seem to think taking off and picking up an international/overwater clearance in the air is a thing... Pay better wages and you'll attract pilots competent to fly the aircraft and missions of your company.
I had always wondered how SeaTac and BFI managed to avoid traffic conflicts when their runways are almost parallel and running into each other. Turns out, they don't 🤷🏼♀️
Well that was a complete balls up by ATC. Had them conducting a right base into on coming traffic lol wtf. Then no suggestions from the Captain on vista686 to make left turn or anything? Surprised the vista686 didn’t question what atc was thinking with the downwind departure and right turn after take off from 32L. Why not just request a VFR departure hdg to intercept outbound track and just maintain 1500ft till clear of the airfield then pick you your ifr clearance with you request for climb? The 1500ft requirement call from ATC would’ve been the trigger for me to question things at the holding point. What a shmozzel
Not good. Piss poor airmanship from vistajet 868. What the hell were they thinking?
Exemplary work by the pilot. He kept his cool despite all of the shenanigans.
See the comment near the top which explains what happened. It appears the pilot received IFR clearance to Athens from Ground and a flight plan filed, accordingly. Then for reasons explained, a different runway then originally anticipated was used for takeoff, which required a VFR departure. All of this was discussed between the pilot and Ground, and approved. Ground did not relay enough info to the Tower which led them to believe the plane was attempting to reland. Then chaos ensued...
horrible work by the pilots, they almost had a collion multiple times, clearly you didnt understand a thing in that video.
Give the guy a clearance out of your airspace and then straiten it out.
not how it works dumbass
Vista has 40 planned there safety must be up to the highest standards. Apparently it’s not .. what a blamage.
What the crap just happened
I went to high school with a Max Bank.
I've always said I've wanted a job where my biggest decision is going left or right. After watching this Ive changed my mind.
This might have ended ugly.
If he hasn't completely lost the airport on downwind, he would have been fine.
Clearance should have been picked up on the ground with appropriate SID then an organized departure following the SID on track to destination...What was the Gulfstream thinking???
It was, ground controller put the on an alternate departure that was VFR only, and told the pilots they'd pick up their IFR plan clearance airborne. The confusion was caused by the ground controller not communicating this to either tower or departure who assumed that the pilot wanted to do circuits.
The title is not fair to the pilot. He did nothing wrong, the ATC's on duty did not follow proper handoff and communications guidelines/protocols. Assuming he filed a flight plan (which I believe is handled by company and not the pilot itself). Maybe the ATC should call Kennedy Steve for a lesson in situational awareness. It is a big jet from which you can assume it is not relanding within 20 minutes. Sometimes not assuming things can be the mother of all F-ups.
Pilot should have realized what was going on when he was vectored “downwind”. That means your in the landing pattern
VistaJet operates Bombardier product not Gulfstream Aircraft
seattle causes chaos for itself? just ask me ?
What a cluster fuck, someone gimmie a parachute...
For the know-nothings, how did ATC switch from having the Gulfstream depart to land again? ATC says thy can't give IFR clearance airborne. Does that mean the Gulfstream had not cleared a plan before takeoff?
Wth was that? Geez
What a gong show.
Just fly at 1,500 all the way there.. 🙄
Sounds like corporate customer decides he want to go to Athens last minute and pilot wants to service vip guest by taking off 15 minutes later. Pilot takes off vfr just to get air born while company frantically files flight plan.
Video tittle off. ATC dropped the ball
Clearly..! He even says he’s outbound heavy, with 5 hours of fuel to burn before a safe landing. How could a controller miss ALL that info.
I would have been filling out a NASA report ASAP.
These pilots should stay at home that day.
Vistajetpilot, unflappably cool as a cucumber 😁
Anyone realize the thumbnail isn’t a Gulfstream? :) looks like a GE
How the fuck???
I’m sooooo confused.
Whenever you manage to almost give a controller a heart attack :And another comment the dude is British in a challenger that needs a long runway to take off I don’t think that they will be doing patterns if they are that heavy ?
Omg I had sweaty palms this whole video
Jesus this controller is a spaz. He should consider a different job. Read the guy his IFR get a release and contact departure
When ATC told a departing plane to fly base I was a bit confused because I usually only hear that instruction given for planes arriving. But the pilot copied the instruction and started flying a south base even though he was departing north, so I figured everything must be okay. However when ATC said that 686 is overrunning their turn for final I almost crapped my pants. Then when ATC calls the flight 848 at 4:34 I did a facepalm. But I have to keep in mind that a bad day in the office for me means that someone can’t print or the coffee pot was empty. A bad day in the office for a controller means that people die. It’s such an incredibly stressful job that there’s a maximum age limit for new controllers, just like there’s a max age limit to join most (if not all) branches of the military. I commend the pilot of 868 for staying calm and being polite. He had every right to be upset about the danger he was put into but he was professional enough to know that his main priority was the safety of the souls onboard, and that there will be plenty of time to complain later.
I noted that about half way through 868 switches who is talking on the radio. I wonder if the first pilot was worried he'd loose his professional calm with ATC.
ATC fault, no real fault of Vistajet at all. Thank heavens the pilot was so calm and steady. But to be fair, it's horrendous airspace and ATC have a massive amount to do. Such congestion shouldn't be so common, but that's the way in some places. The "I want" culture in spades.
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