I can't wait to see Shalai and Hallar in the next cards we were wrong about video. 😂

100%

Wow I thought you were kidding but they opened up with that one. Yikes.

Yup cards with multiple 1 card infinite combos are just obnoxiously strong, they're very wrong

Yeah I’m with you. Usually share most of the Nerds’ opinions on cards but not this one in the slightest

I immediately came to the comments when the video started to see if anyone else noticed they overlooked the several single cards this goes infinite with lmao

Holy cow, I've never seen a bigger missed mark on Shalai and Halar. So many infinites in colors that can easily tutor for said combo pieces.

14+ Combos

Combos are lame though - if it said each player, it would be good and allow value plays. Nothing special about a two card combo. Not to mention, it will get shot on sight if it ever is about to win.

@Kennell Frederick  I'm not talking about evaluating how it is to play against, I'm saying how its being evaluated as per the criteria presented. Whether you like combos or not, this card has them, and the video disagrees with that even though there are 14+ as stated by the other reply. Also being a magnet to removal is not a talking point. That should suggest it's more powerful, not less.

@Kennell Frederick You just did NOT say "combos are lame".

@Kennell Frederick LoL you must win every CEDH game you play, i mean you stop every combo, that needs to seek 1 card, by having it die to removal...

shalai and hallar have war elemental, the red terror, and heliod sun crowned, they also work well with keen sense and snake umbra , seems very undervalued here

also vigor + blasphemous act is a very fun way to end a game

Agreed! Lots of very powerful options with this commander.

and All Will Be One

Archangel of Thune, Felidar's Retreat, Cathar's Crusade.

I guess we just forgot that Heliod exists for Shalai and Halar. Kroxa also insta-wins by having Altar of Dementia by going “Kroxa -> Sac to mill 6 -> get Kroxa back with itself -> mill to a select number of cards are in graveyard -> use final Kroxa trigger to reanimate Sun Titan instead -> reanimate Animate Dead -> reanimate Worldgorger Dragon -> perform one Worldgorger loop with Animate Dead -> use Sun Titan to reanimate any 3 or less etb damage effect -> you win with infinite Worldgorger loop” Im sorry yall. It feels like you kind of only surface level looked at these.

Shalai and Hallar are a command zone walking balista for Heliod sun crowned. Also combos with Red Terror. It's not that bad.

If you give it lifelink it also goes infinite with light of promise, sun bond, or cleric class. It’s probably too powerful for a casual format

This commander has a bunch of combos that ain't hard... Not getting this rating 🤔

Also all will be one , these guys dont know what there taking about

Comboing with 3 plus cards doesn't make it a good commander. Nearly any commander can be good if you have 2 or 3 cards to go with it.

On Etali, you said "Lands don´t do anything" - its not quite the same trigger as old Etali. New Etali exiles until he hits a nonland you can cast so its even better by comparison

Shalai and Hallar are super powerful. Even without the combos, it's a powerful commander.

1:00:00 - I mentioned this in response to the 99 video, but this Etali trigger is different from regular Etali. You ALWAYS hit two cards, it keeps going until you hit a non-land

Exactly omg that card is much more busted than they probably think

i tbh think that shalai and hallar is the strongest commander of the set, but so powerful and easy to combo with that it does not make much sense on a casual table

Shalai and hallar gave +1+1 decks a way to win with no attackers. People are sleeping on them

Shalai and Hallar have multiple 2 card combos that it's actually pretty consistent, especially with the Naya colors being the best at getting said combo pieces. Power on it is up the wazoo

If the combo contains the commander people view that as a 1 card combo actually, since you always have access to that

Shalai and Hallar literally go infinite with a ham sandwich 😭

Something unique I’ve seen with Yargle and Multani is a focus on power matters deck. A deck where you play it and either sack it to greater good to draw 18 cards, or dome someone for 18 with Essence harvest. And if Yargle and Multani die to much, you can also use other creatures with absurd power that are very common in green and black.

You got that from another video 😂🤣

I think you might be underestimating Heliod's power. It gets back some real powerhouse staples (mystic remora, rhystic study, smothering tithe..) and the backside goes nuts with wheels like windfall. Plus giving everything flash is quite powerful in itself. There's some potential there.

Kroxa and Kunoros has Altar of Dementia as a one card wincon! Self mill, using altar to mill yourself 6 and always choosing your commander to come back from it's own etb, netting you a card in your graveyard. Mill until you have Angel of Glory Rise and Fiend Hunter in your graveyard, then end the loop by bringing Angel of Glory Rise back, etb effect brings back Fiend Hunter. Fiend Hunter etb exiles Angel of Glory Rise. Sacrifice the Fiend Hunter to mill a player a card, Angel of Glory Rise etb brings back Fiend Hunter, Fiend Hunter exiles Angel of Glory Rise. Repeat until your opponents mill out. Power level of these commanders (Shalai and Hallar too) is underrated by these two this time. Keep up the great work!

Honestly K and K are pretty good

out of curiosity wouldn't it be easier to mill sir konrad bring him back and then continue the loop since cards are still entering the graveyard

Hidetsugu and kairi are a really cool clone commander, since you can abuse the legend rule to get both the etb and the dies trigger at once.

I built them around that too, with fewer sac outlets. You can abuse those Boomerang effects like malakir Rebirth way better on cloning too: clone the boys, cast malakir on the original commander, let the OG die, let them re-enter and then let the clone die. That's some pro gamer juggling right here

I feel like convoke is a hard mechanic to balance, because if you push it too much then you basically have a deck with really good spells where every single creature is a manadork.

I just love how you guys and Commander Quarters have Shalai Hallar on opposite ends of the spectrum. CQ: S tier vs NN: F tier

Shalimar and Hallar go infinite with The Red Terror just like the enchantment All Will Be One does. I dont understand how you guys missed that. Half a 2 cars infinite combo in your command zone.

Yeah literally has a one card combo like what kind of rating was that if anything bright palm should have been last

Haha I can’t help but feel like the Shalai/Hallar take is a troll take. There are multiple two card combos with it and counters are such a supported theme it’s half multiple combos in the command zone and even if not playing any of the combos it’s still very easy to put so many counters on stuff you just burn down the the table. Be very interesting to see if the nerds are right on this one but I don’t think so. Although I do think the characters in the card are kinda meh so I agree with that

you can only hit one player at a time, so not as good.

Hidetsugu and Kairi are perfect for a clone legend rule deck. Your commander never really has to die. 26:17

Kasla's REAL power lies in being an ally, making her a PERFECT secret commander in a 5 color General Tazri deck, there's definitely enough GOOD convoke cards in all 5 colors to make the deck function and running all the cheap early game value creatures that will then double as mana dorks means you have a fairly strong deck overall.

It was mentioned giada wasn't old enough/to small to fight like other new capenna angels, so she wasn't always ball of energy always unlike other angels. You have to remember new capenna angels are different from normal angels.

Oh yeah, I feel the same way about Thalia and the Gitrog Monster. The moment I saw it spoiled, I knew I wanted to play it as my new commander. I had no clue what I wanted to do with the deck, except I wanted Thalia and the Gitrog Monster at the helm.

Giada's body was restored with Halo and she was constantly following Errant around while she was on her mission to plant the charges to knock the skyscrapers by lending potency to her halo cartridges and shielding her from harm, but never actually made her presence know Errant. Giada was essentially Errant's guardian angel during the mission Also Athreos saw that Kroxa ate the phyrexians so hard that no oil remained when they reached him in the underworld, so he unchained him and sent Kunoros to shepherd Kroxa so he couldn't escape again. Edit: There's a recent article about why a lot of the team ups are teaming up. Kairi decided Hidetsugu's power would be needed to fight the phyrexians as an example, so decided to unlock Hidetsugu, etc

I was going to mention Shalai and Hallar as the most underrated but since everyone already mentioned it I'll go with Kroxa and Kunoros with altar of dementia leading to exiling your whole deck and tutoring for your combo. I don't have the exact line in front of me but I know there's a bunch of ways

Shalai and Hallar is a very powerful commander. Maybe the most powerful naya commander, if were talking power level. Absolutetly boring but goes infinite super quick with colors that can tutor creature combos very good.

It's powerful but they're not topping Rocco, who is currently a top cedh deck for a reason

@spudster888 Yeah, i kinda forgot about him... Totally agree with you ;)

Cloning is so strong for hidetsugu and Kairi, that gives you both an ETB and death trigger at the same time. And if you get a clone spell off the top you can make up for not pulling a strong card with getting another chance to reroll

I will say, I appreciate Joe being like Kogla said “GET THE TABLES!!!” And Yidaro totally understood the assignment 😂

23:20 Polukranos has a special place in my heart, the Heroes vs. Monsters duel decks were what helped me learned how to play magic and that guy was just the bees knees to little Timmy me. I really want to see him die and come back two more times in each color, giving us a simic Polukranos and a Gruul Polukranos. The running joke of Polukranos coming back and dying over and over just seems funny to me personally

I have been waiting for this since the spoilers started coming out! Thanks for all the awesome and consistent content the two of you produce 🤗!

I really like the Errant and Giada (Showcase), to me it’s whimsical and cartoony. Kind of reminds me of Monster’s Inc, which I love that film

I was so bummed when I saw there wasn’t alt art for surrak and goreclaw. The multiversal legends version of goreclaw looks so good

Rem has flying and haste, adds an additional one damage to burn caused by spells to opponets, as well as prevents damage spells would do to you. Very good in my Gisela blade of goldinght global burn deck. Super fun!

I usually see and agree with where yall are coming from, but Shalai and Hallar was a huge miss for me, they feel very powerful. Not to mention, in Naya, you have an extremely deep pool of efficient creature tutors and combos.

Kroxa and Kunoros is a super strong and flexible commander that's already got a couple cEDH builds. One on the turbo Ad Naus side and then a more grindy, staxy version. This card is a house and it's in really strong colors.

Some of these power ratings are pretty hilarious. First they said the commander with the most/easiest infinite combos doesn't do anything (Shalai and Hallar). Then they said Heliod is really weak too, even though he's being tested in cEDH because you can play Wheel + Eldrazi/other giant cards. He's almost a Prophet of Kruphix on the back side lol

Yargle and Multani seem like a great Commander for a power matters deck. You do have the ability to one shot people, but add in something like Ghoulcaller Gisa and it's a build a huge board card. Edit, and I'm justbgoing to add some thoughts. Errant and Giada's art give me some serious Dr. Who vibes, and I love it Kasla, I 100% agree. I almoat want to get the deck she's in just because there are some decent convoke in MOM. They are definitely going to print some bettter convoke by the looks of things. With some of the team ups, I feel like they wanted a lot of unique creature types. Human God, Vamipre Angel, and the like. I bought the Knight deck because of Sidar Jabari, He seems super fun to play. Thaila and Gitrorg were and absolute house in limited. I want to build them next The MOM version of the Praetors is that they turn into enchantments.l, I blew out a guys Urabrask like this at prerelease. I feel like they can get blown up too easily.

Squee's reanimation was flavor for both his immortality and his ability to get out of tough situations, so it's still flavorful IMO. Very fun card

Squee isn’t immortal anymore though

@Colin Brown He wasn't immortal in his first printing where he came back from the graveyard every turn either. He was just incredibly hard to get rid of, lore wise

Honestly don’t know how you guys missed the completely busted shalai and hallar combos with the red terror and war elemental

On your spreadsheet, set your text assignment to center for the cells contacting your ranking numbers. Love your stuff!

I think the only real letdown for the set from me is that the main set of cards seems more interesting than the Commander deck commanders lol The entire theme of the set is crazy exciting

Shaka and hallar go infinite with Heliod so crazy for that low rating

Gotta admit Shalai and Hallar seems a LOT stronger than y'all suggest. Plenty of Proliferate makes this deadly fast.

Agree with most things except Shalai and hallar and heliods power rating, any artifact deck with wheels and draw spells just wins after he flips. Keep up the good work nerds!!!❤

Damn, you went so hard on Rem I actually had to look up if he had a printing before midnight hunt. He's one of those standard cards that lives rent free in my head every set release and is going to be good someday! Surely! Also he cares about spells and that sorta checks out with convoke? Idk its loose

Your discussion of Kasla gave me an idea for future video. Commanders that have changed significantly since their original placement due to new cards or mechanics impacting them.

Shalai and Halar are a missed opportunity. The card is strong, but I don't think it really captured the personality of both commanders. They should have given them a kicker cost that distributes counters and temporary hexproof. Make it expensive, and that would have worked. It wouldn't have been too busted either.

When you add new cards to the list, do you go back over old cards and lower the uniqueness if a load of new cards have a similar effect? Edit: You are really underestimating the power of the new Heliod. The spell cost reduction gets really nutty.

Surrak and Goreclaw are indeed set booster exclusive in case anyone was wondering. Also, so is Orthion

they're actually the exclusive Jumpstart rares (they can be pulled in set and collector boosters tho)

Kuronos doesn’t let kroxa escape. It even says on the card that the Phyrexians run into them in the underworld

Deaths presence is like a massive W for shalai and hallar

I just see Heliod as a Teferi’s Puzzle Box/Eldrazi deck or artifact deck. If it’s artifact it’s gonna combo Atleast the Eldrazi route won’t be littered with combos hopefully

I'd love to see Quintorius pop over to Amonkhet, do some Indiana Jones shenanigans and find the old lost cities on the plane from before old Nicky B scrapped it all to build his little oasis army growing city.

Moira and Teshar combo with end step exile effects like Teleportation Circle and Conjurers Closet so you keep whatever you bring back as long as you can flicker it into exile

Rem Karolus prevents spells from dealing damage to your other dudes and increases the damage your spells deal to opponents' dudes. I only know this because I considered it multiple times for a tiny creature tribal Alesha deck as a protection piece, but not stopping ability damage makes it pretty bad.

They gave Mono color the Ultimate commander with the final Praetors. Each one of them is a Ranking number in the top 10 of all commander cards ever to me

Fun fact, because Rem Karolus adds a point of damage to spells you cast that deal damage, they make a really fun Dragons Approach commander. Plus since all damage from spells dealt to you or creatures you control is prevented, you come thru a Blasphemous Act unscathed.

Overall, it sounds like y'all kinda could have used more time doing your research before making this video. Check out the mechanics, check out the support, see where things fall.

Scurried Oak + Ivy League Denizen is an Infinite Combo win with that first commander

Everyone is talking about Shalai and Hallar, but I also feel that Sheoldred got a bit underrated here. In a non-combo meta it's a very strong recurring value piece. Sure it's 10 mana, but it can be payed in 5 + 5 installments, and it probably destroys more than that in value, with the non-token edict and destroy permanent from chapter 1. And discard 3 into Rise of the Dark Realms is a very solid disruption into win condition line. Again, not a cEDH card I reckon, but quite strong in combat metas, especially in the 99

I think Etali is actually even stronger than you guys are giving it credit for since the trigger says exile until you find a card rather than just the top of the library allowing for whiffs on lands. Instead the one extra mana gives a guaranteed 5+ for 1

When I saw Zimone and Dina, I thought "Oh awesome, this looks great, and I can change my Sultai deck to this," and...yeah, I still may build them, but I think you hit it on the head. This deck is probably going to be Sultai landfall goodstuff and probably combo off with a ham sandwich. Granted, most of my decks are budget so maybe it's worth having even a budget super-strong deck. We'll see, I still have a lot of pieces that would go into it well, but there's a lot of fun legends in this set, maybe I should consider another.

thing is, i don't really agree with the whole "second coming of korvold/chullane" stuff, for me those cards are commander broken no matter what you do, with zimone and dina you can just not put 100 ways to untap them, like ignore retreat to coralhelm, they are gonna be strong and fun but not cEDH level broken plus, chullane and korvold did a lot all by themeselve, for zimone and dina it really feels like you need to assemble a context for it to break, for me they are OP but not broken, which seems like a good place to be, but yeah if you go to an lgs its likely people are just gonna build its stronger version, which sucks but still feels fairer than korvold

Shalai and Hallar has combos like the red terror and some others.

There quite a few easy combos, but even if you don't do that they are still really strong.

how you guys didnt read the flavor text of kroxa and kuneros is beyond me. literally tells you the invasion tree breached the underworld and they're fighting in the underworld. also the shalai and hallar take is so off its crazy.

I think you might have misjudged shalai's power. Cant say for sure

Red terror, heliod…. Just two two card combos from the command zone… totally a weak commander

I was about to say, has 2 or 3 two card combos and a number of 3 card combos.

Combos aren't fun, and that's not really building around the deck. Value commanders that win over time are usually the best.

​@Kennell Frederick I can see the idea of combos not being fun, especially in more casual metas. However a combo with your commander is the most built-around your commander can be. Probably the best example of this is cEDH Godo, where almost every single card in the deck is focused on equipping Helm of the Host to Godo as fast and safely as possible.

I have Rem Karolus as a commander; he is actually very strong.

Zimone and Dina is the definition of Sultai Value

This set just has a little bit of everything for everyone from the timmies to the spikes for every deck type from combo to casual it’s just like a playground the multiversal legends sheet has a lot of trash cards and really only 3 in each colors that are exciting to pull and I agree they shouldn’t have changed the font on invocations I thought the frame was cool it was just crowded regardless of lore the team ups are a cute bit of fan service of unlikely pairs and I hope aftermath gives us what they couldn’t fit in one set.

I've always debated including artwork as part of the value system. Sure, it looks cool but if it gets killed - it just makes a pretty corpse... I think rarity would be valued more. How often it is used - and seen - an played against - has a game impact as well.

Surrak and Goreclaw are a Jumpstart (and set booster) exclusive which is why they're missing any extra art

Missing 3 cards that go infinite with shalai is cool BUT MESSING WITH MY MAN KAROLUS IS A NO GO

Shalai and Hallar 1 card combos from command zone: Red Terror, Heliod Sun-Crowned, War Elemental and few others probably. Also huge payoffs for things like Cathars Crusade/Defiler of Vigor. This is sooooooo bad take from Your side.

Didn't take into account clones with Hidetsugu and Kairi. Sure its a bit clunky and janky but actually really good.

Also if Shalai and Hallar ar so bad why did you not suggest removing them as one the cards to cut out of the deck?

I got the chance to meet you guys at Commandfest Orlando and I just wanna say you guys are really friendly and holy cow is beezy tall

Urabrask is pretty much confirmed to being left alive in Merciless Repurposing.

Rashmi would be absurd if you could do It in other people turns, just imagine, you make 4 or 5 artifacts (trivial), pass turn. Opt. Free spell off of the top. Next player, brainstorm, free spell. It would give you 3 free cards by spending 3 mana in a single go-around. It would be busted.

Beezy had me laughing out loud in this video. I knew Joe would want that Gitrog store promo. And feeling vindicated that you gave Zimone and Dina a 10, I called it Sultai Korvold immediately

Question, would you do the Commander legal Unfinity set? I wanted to see your opinion on Magar, of the magic strings.

Without regarding : Rem Karolus nullifies noncombat damage your creatures get and increase by one those you deal. Something like that. She is in my Rokiric deck :3

Thought you guys were joking about Shalai and Hallar. Probably best commander power wise from this set?

I beat Ghalta with my 2 Bonded Herdedbeats at the prerelease. Its a 7 mana card with heavy pip requirements

Enough people have already mentioned shalai and halar, (100% disagree with your call btw) but lets talk about yargle and multani. There are so many cards in green that just draw equal to power. Even the ones that you have to sac the creature. Oh, hey, you're also in black so you have reanimation. Its a pretty good way to go through your entire deck in a turn or two. Making it kill with a +3/+3 is just a weird side plan

Kroxa and Kunros, is super strong with mill out combo potential, at highpower builds, but have to agree with the Shalai comments... fun factor if you power build it, probably not super fun for tables that aren't into combo wins, but walking ballista in the command zone, that triggers with Red terror, War Elemental, heliod, Archangel of thune... Even a non combo build, seems pretty strong, with cathar crusade and all will be one... not sure how it was literally the worst commander in the list,

Jin-Gitaxias should be number 1. And no thats not bias, hes just a game winner on his one. Plus hes got alot of built in value, easy to flip if you built the deck properly and is able to do all the nutty things blue loves doing.

Technically urabrask is the only one that didn't explicitly die from all the predators so there is still hope

I thought the Shalai and Hallar bit was a joke until they moved on to the next commander.

Etali may need more power maybe because they flip UNTIL they find a NONLAND but only maybe 1-2 points

the reason surrak and goreclaw don't have an altered art is because they are from the MoM jumpstart

37:15 I'm just excited they finally used the Invocation frame for Magic cards.

Etali is even better because its until you hit a nonland! So good

Errant and Henzie would of been an amazing card

I gotta echo what other people are saying here, I think you guys are waaaay off on Shalai and Hallar. I really like that it gives counters decks a way to win, and I also think having a deck that can still do the thing without NEEDING the commander in play is a pretty strong way to play. Love you nerds but gotta disagree!

So on Baral being a criminal, on the reprint of Baral, Chief of Compliance it says "in light of his zealous defense of Zenikar, the Consulate was willing to overlook any previous transgressions".... Guess we'll have to see how Chandra feels about that.

With glissa i could see her being really annoying with say a phyrexian tribal with lots of low cost phyrexians , ramp and draw and some buffs/anthems , play lots of low cost critters , give them death touch and first strike, maybe some +1+1's and swing , idk about top tier but i wouldnt call it weak

Also baral was pardoned of his crimes in light of his zealous defence of the city according to his multiverse legends printing

Gotta day I disagree with the Shalai and Hallar assessment. I'm so excited to put them in with my Marath deck. The amount of +1/+1 counters I just move onto other creatures is crazy and now I get to just blast my opponents in the face for just 4 mana seems crazy good to me.

How does Malar Play? you got a decklist? i finished a Shallar list, but i guess i could just swap them out

57:18, you actually get vampires depending on how wide you swing, not how big your guy is. Notable difference

This might be a silly question but you all referenced a lot more details of the story than you can gather from just the cards, where does someone find the stories of each set? I thought they used to put out books with the lore but wasn’t sure if they still did that anymore.

I actually have Rem Karolus in my Syr Gwyn deck. Just another knight lol. He prevents damage you and creatures you control would take from spells and then adds 1 to your spell damage

...and I actually have Rem Karolus as commander. I love that they hate him, just makes it more unique!