Medieval Misconceptions: the TRUE origin of the KNIFE SWORD - Messer

  • Am Vor year

    ShadiversityShadiversity

    Dauer: 14:41

    No, the messer or 'knife sword' was not made to allow peasants to carry a sword like weapon when sword carrying was illegal. Here's the real answer.
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    Source.
    The Martial Ethic in Early Modern Germany: books.google.com.au/books/about/The_Martial_Ethic_in_Early_Modern_German.html?id=lRp_DAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

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The Guy
The Guy

This is the sword that medieval Gordon Ramsay uses.

Vor 10 Tage
superfluous .
superfluous .

It's called a knife because Germany.

Vor 13 Tage
KitSnap
KitSnap

6:46 What page is it please?

Vor 14 Tage
Trilby Man Owens
Trilby Man Owens

Get well soon, mo chara.

Vor 17 Tage
TexasTypewriter
TexasTypewriter

I actually think it's entirely possible that people in the past may have made a weapon that was as big as a sword, performed the same function as a sword, and for all intents and purposes, looked like a sword - but was called a "knife" on a technicality, because we have this exact sort of situation today. In the United States, federal law says certain types of weapons are illegal to own without a tax registration, which aside from costing money, also greatly slows down the purchasing process. One of these types of weapons is the Short Barreled Rifle, or SBR. An SBR is classified as "any shoulder-fired, rifled firearm made from a rifle, with a barrel length less than 16 inches and an overall length less than 26 inches, or a handgun with a stock and a barrel less than 16 inches." So, what do you do if you want a rifle with a barrel shorter than 16 inches or an overall length of less than 26 inches, and don't want to pay a $200 dollar tax? You take the stock off, replace it with an arm brace and call it a "pistol." The barrel may be shorter than 16 inches, the overall length may be shorter than 26 inches... but it's not "shoulder fired" because it doesn't have a stock designed to be shouldered (even though most if not all arm braces can be shouldered, and there's no law against shouldering a weapon thus modified), thus legally it's not an SBR - it's a pistol. In size, function, and appearance, it's a short barrelled rifle. Legally, it's a pistol, and thus legal to own without a tax registration.

Vor 23 Tage
Arsenic Ferret
Arsenic Ferret

I am from germany and your pronunciation is kind of weard for me

Vor Monat
Jesse Tessier
Jesse Tessier

Shad, I remember a video where you mentioned the dirk, but I can't recall which it is. This one was great though!

Vor Monat
Aiden B.
Aiden B.

I learned that Messer were defined as having only one blade on the sword. If it had two blades it was defined as a sword. Sadly I have no source I can prove it with.

Vor Monat
Red Ram
Red Ram

I'm so disappointed. Not even one "That's not a knife" reference.

Vor Monat
Red Ram
Red Ram

"Love ya heaps" Hugs n' bunches to you too

Vor Monat
OriGin4LPr0DigY
OriGin4LPr0DigY

I wish I could have gotten more into history and midevil weaponology when I was still in school. I love it

Vor Monat
Jens S.
Jens S.

#getwellsoon greetings from germany. :)

Vor Monat
Johannes Rummel
Johannes Rummel

Lmao neigl is the best word for nagel I ever heard

Vor Monat
Joseph Tapp
Joseph Tapp

I could believe the large knife story. Just look at the ATF

Vor Monat
Schiepers S
Schiepers S

the guilds rules culd be seen as middle age laws.. at least rules like that is what are called laws nowadays.... so just wasted 15 mins to hear yea actually it's called messer due to proto legal reasons

Vor Monat
Sh0tgunn
Sh0tgunn

The Spade is the best weapon in history, change my mind

Vor Monat
Leo Cook
Leo Cook

spear

Vor Monat
CP 1993
CP 1993

I'd be willing to believe the not allowed to carry a sword thing. Look up the ar15 pistol laws and the arm brace you can get in the States.

Vor Monat
Dial 1119
Dial 1119

I used to think they were for cavalry

Vor 2 Monate
Captain Bozo
Captain Bozo

So... technically, is a Katana a Kriegsmesser?

Vor 2 Monate
Fishing pole studios
Fishing pole studios

I have my own theory why the messer was built. The way that swords were normally made was more expensive than knives, so the knife handle is attached to the sword blade, producing a cheaper sword. Honestly, everyone would have tried it, but only the Germans could stop the added weight of the blade destroying the handle

Vor 2 Monate
LIITEMIES
LIITEMIES

Not grey. Youtube tryes again.

Vor 2 Monate
50TNCSA
50TNCSA

I wonder if the Confederate bowies from the civil war would be considered some kind of knife sword since some reached up to 18 to 20 inches

Vor 2 Monate
Hopeful Hyena
Hopeful Hyena

The knife scene from Crocodile Dundee but instead of a bowie knife he pulls out a kriegsmesser. “THAT’S A KNIFE!”

Vor 2 Monate
My pussy smells like horse burps But
My pussy smells like horse burps But

This is just like gun laws same difference

Vor 2 Monate
Jg x
Jg x

when katana and longsword have a baby

Vor 2 Monate
FlensHammer
FlensHammer

... you should rly let google pronounce the german words before pronouncing them. would help with accurate pronounciation.

Vor 3 Monate
Alex V
Alex V

He shad, in honor of the request in the video I say: fuck you, stay sick forever.

Vor 3 Monate
Carrie Seymour
Carrie Seymour

If you wanted to circumvent a law banning you from carrying a weapon by carrying something that *technically* isn't a banned weapon, there are plenty of bona fide agricultural tools that are seriously lethal and in some cases differ by only small modifications from weapons of war.

Vor 3 Monate
Noside Noside
Noside Noside

hear me out: kevlar gambison

Vor 3 Monate
Death Prince of Bel Air
Death Prince of Bel Air

Age of the long knives.

Vor 3 Monate
Kelvin Santiago
Kelvin Santiago

Cutlass video please?!!!!!

Vor 3 Monate
whoah an ant
whoah an ant

Loopholes in law 101 "You can't carry a sword" "But it's a knife" Tah dah!

Vor 3 Monate
Mickey Villadsen
Mickey Villadsen

Große messer has to be pronounced grohse and not like the word gross

Vor 3 Monate
_ Malin Privat
_ Malin Privat

So were people required to own weapons (understandable and very similar to medieval Sweden, for example) or also required to *carry* them? That does make a difference. :)

Vor 3 Monate
Sygg K Nielsen
Sygg K Nielsen

Dear Takashi Miike: Here you have a fine weapon for a Western hero 'guest character'. And I can assure you... the cutting, crushing, sheering power of such a blade is quite equal to that of a katana. Against an unarmored or lightly armored foe, it may bite the bones quite easily.

Vor 3 Monate
Vanilla Gorilla
Vanilla Gorilla

The knife sword came about when one person swore they'd never have trouble chopping through a roast again.

Vor 4 Monate
Tornado
Tornado

Imagine if they started making tiny pocket sized swords to protest against knife makers

Vor 4 Monate
money guys
money guys

Get well Shad

Vor 4 Monate
Dock Babington
Dock Babington

Before I watched this, I would've thought it had something to do with the sumptuary laws at the time. Thank you for clearing this up a bit.

Vor 4 Monate
Bullock Wagon
Bullock Wagon

The original theory could be correct just based on current firearm laws across the USA. Comparison is the Ar15 PISTOL vs the Ar15 SHORT BARRELED RIFLE. The pistol and rifle are functionally and cosmetically identical. The only different is the SBR has a buttstock making it illegal to own and posses. The PISTOL has what's known as a 'Pistol Brace' making it completely legal to own and possess.

Vor 4 Monate
Just Jordan
Just Jordan

Make sense, there is still a restriction for caring knifes in Germany and what do you know it is still by the length of the blade.

Vor 5 Monate
Grant Hagen
Grant Hagen

It is called a Messer because it will Messer you up

Vor 5 Monate
me too
me too

Get on with in Great another 5 minute video in 15 minutes

Vor 5 Monate
Marc Johnson
Marc Johnson

2:00 wasted

Vor 5 Monate
Marc Johnson
Marc Johnson

Shut up aboot your personal life

Vor 5 Monate
A Lounge Moogle
A Lounge Moogle

I always just assumed that it was because it looked like a big knife.

Vor 5 Monate
Walter
Walter

The Messer looks like a knife, not like a sword. One sharp side, inclination of the blade, handle ... Thinking like a german, I would say they called them Messer because they did not look like typical swords and germans are totally into naming things. DIN (Deutsche Industrie Norm; a way of naming and distinguishing types of items to the smallest detail ) is everywhere in germany. If modern germans are not too different from medieval germans, the medieval ones would also have loved to provide specific names for specific types of items. naming a thing that looks like a knife, knife and not sword would have told everyone the type of your weapon. Of course - semantics - no one would have suspected, that you were carrying a kitchen-knife around, when talking about weaponry. :)

Vor 5 Monate
Ryan Odom
Ryan Odom

After reading the Wheel of Time series, I saw one of Skallagrim’s videos with his grossmesser (or however it’s spelled) and I thought that’s probably pretty close to what Jordan was describing

Vor 5 Monate
Mathew Koch
Mathew Koch

Get well shad

Vor 5 Monate
Max Tyberius
Max Tyberius

You missed one of the main differences between knives and swords, knives are single bladed.

Vor 5 Monate
Ty Burton
Ty Burton

It’s sad I don’t see any “get well soons” in the comments and unfortunately I found this video incredibly late lol

Vor 5 Monate
Chrisfragger1
Chrisfragger1

Can I come dressed up as Crocodile Dundee?

Vor 5 Monate
Chase Burleson
Chase Burleson

Get well soon Shad :)

Vor 5 Monate
Max Mustermann
Max Mustermann

"Nobody was allowed to carry arms." "Everyone was required to have a sword." It's like I am getting told a story by J.J Abrahams and Ryan Johnson !

Vor 5 Monate
zen strata
zen strata

Because sometimes you need to eat your dinner with a sword.

Vor 5 Monate
Joseph Schmitt
Joseph Schmitt

Shad, do you have any videos about the kukri!? If not, that would be my recommendation. If so, where can I find them please

Vor 5 Monate
The Debra Sanchez
The Debra Sanchez

Was watching the katana misconceptions video and thought "I wonder if you have anything on Messers?" I think YouTube can read minds because this was the recommended video.

Vor 5 Monate
basically hell
basically hell

maybe the sword makers made daggers to get back on the knife makers

Vor 5 Monate
deeez00
deeez00

I need a knifesword to eat my tomahawk steak. 😋

Vor 5 Monate
olafspetzki
olafspetzki

The Großes Messerwas was just because...you know...apples grow very big in Germany.

Vor 5 Monate
Dakadeezy
Dakadeezy

Hey Shad, let us know when ya hit the states. Big fan but I'm across the pond from Europe, hopefully ya come to knife, gun and sword freedom some day to see the sights! If ya end up in Illinois then let me know so we can take ya to shoot all kinds of guns illegal in most places bit the US while ya teach us about our favorite cqb weapons. Also keep a legal knife on ya at all times cuz America is usually a safe place but heathens are everywhere

Vor 5 Monate
Jonathan Lunger2
Jonathan Lunger2

In reality all swords exist because the subjects are not allowed guns

Vor 5 Monate
Rechordian
Rechordian

Mordhau rly looked at a big German knife and said "yes, this should be the ultimate weapon"

Vor 5 Monate
Diego Tiberi
Diego Tiberi

get well soon shad!

Vor 5 Monate
Rob van den Berg
Rob van den Berg

That German ethics book looks surprisingly interesting, like when I read about the history of accounting. No sarcasm intended, "The Reckoning, the history of accounting systems and the rise and fall of nations" was very good reading.

Vor 5 Monate
Joseph Boccarossa
Joseph Boccarossa

So... the myth of the origin of messers is the truth of the US NFA code?

Vor 5 Monate
TheLordUrban
TheLordUrban

There is only one man I trust to tell me if an object is a knife or not.

Vor 5 Monate
Terrkas0
Terrkas0

About the part to circumvent it, by making it a "knive" and it was obviously a sword. You don't know german bureaucracy very well, I guess. For a german it would be totally plausible, that it was not a sword by law and thus would circumvent a rule that forbids swords. Even if it looks like a sword. But that works for the guildpart as well.

Vor 5 Monate
Garen Olivari
Garen Olivari

That sword was invented to be weilded by skeletons

Vor 5 Monate
kleine.blume
kleine.blume

The contradiction of two laws that apply simultaneously around the "Messer" is pretty much a good summary of the trafic signs in current Germany lol.

Vor 5 Monate
Asa-Punk aka Åsa-Punk at Vinland Suður
Asa-Punk aka Åsa-Punk at Vinland Suður

Also we should consider the fact that while the Messer becomes common to both nobility & lower classes, it did start as a pleasant side arm. Also it seems they evolved from smaller knives. To Mr this strongly suggests that the Messer was a tool that became a sword. But unlike a short sword the Messer can be used as a machete or a weapon. So perhaps it was popular with peasants first as for them it was a part time machete & part time sword. But it's usefulness as a weapon is why it became more specialized as a weapon like in 2-hamded versions.

Vor 5 Monate
mikey adalbert
mikey adalbert

It was invented to eat steak and cheese, also "this is a knife". ok now video.

Vor 5 Monate
Kerbaman
Kerbaman

So daggers are sword makers trying to get into the knife business?

Vor 5 Monate
jchoneandonly
jchoneandonly

huh..... i like messers

Vor 5 Monate
Zinaida Nitikin
Zinaida Nitikin

Crafting guilds... medieval health insurance from corporate office?

Vor 5 Monate
Holzkopf Baumfaust
Holzkopf Baumfaust

Nice i was wondering about this weird type of sword (Jagdmesser in german) in Kingdom Come Deliverance.

Vor 5 Monate
Kursk Firebrand
Kursk Firebrand

the definition of following the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law

Vor 5 Monate
zetsumeinaito
zetsumeinaito

I like a lot of the Messer designs. I always found single edged swords to have interesting and often elegant curves.

Vor 5 Monate
Chris L
Chris L

I think the "it's a knife not a sword" thing might have something to do with modern day German Laws. Where a "gun" is only considered a "weapon" if the projectile is shot OUT of a barrel and it's considered a "Toy" if the projectile is shot OFF a barrel. So anything that fires a hollow arrow type projectile that goes on OVER the barrel is legally a "toy" regardless of its lethality. But if the projectile goes IN the barrel and is shot out of it is a "weapon" regardless of lethality. Which honestly is just plain STUPID, because there are some air powered "rifles" that fire arrows or bolts from off a barrel that could go completely THROUGH a person and into the wall behind them just as a bullet would and some that can even puncture body armor. So this legal technicality stuff is based on how the "weapon" is made and iys method of function rather then it's intended use or ability to harm or kill. Which I think has some impact on this myth simply because that's how it is done today so they assume the same would be true for in the past.

Vor 5 Monate
Jack TheDescendedAngel
Jack TheDescendedAngel

I love your content but I'm going to have to disagree on some points and I'll provide time stamps as well: 7:08 in my opinion the movie was extremely well made with compelling acting and see well thought out sub plots that aren't in the book. That is all.

Vor 5 Monate

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