If ATC gives you a number to call, should you make that call?

  • Am Vor 11 Monate

    ExpertAviatorExpertAviator

    Dauer: 20:33

    If ATC gives you a number to call, should you make that call?
    Today we answer that question with Chris Pezalla from www.strumorlaw.com
    Should you make that call?
    What you should consider.
    All conversations are recorded.
    Why is ATC asking you to call?
    Is this normal?
    Am I required to call the number?
    Should we call?
    Reasons why you should call.
    What if we know we are in trouble, should we still call?
    Should I file an ASRS? (NASA Report)
    Links mentioned in this video:
    NASA ASRS report:
    asrs.arc.nasa.gov
    Aviation Safety Action Program:
    www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/asap/
    Airline Pilots Association:
    www.alpa.org
    AOPA Legal Plan:
    pilot-protection-services.aopa.org

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Paul Mohr
Paul Mohr

I would call. In most cases they either want to educate you or hear your side of the story. If you did actually screw up it might give you a chance to talk your way out of it. At the very least you will learn what you did wrong and how to avoid it next time. If you don't call they are probably going to file it and you will have to deal with the FAA. Sort of the same thing with getting ticket in a car. Your attitude plays a large role in it sometimes. Sometimes a cop has every intention of giving you a warning or writing you for a lesser offense. How you interact with them can change that outcome.

Vor 20 Stunden
Jump N´ Run
Jump N´ Run

I´m just a flight simmer. Why do I even watch this.

Vor 4 Tage
Jim Flagg
Jim Flagg

Pilot Deviation is the key word that you done F'ed up.

Vor 8 Tage
jlfcpa
jlfcpa

Ask Harrison Ford!

Vor 16 Tage
jlfcpa
jlfcpa

Duhh. Wanna keep your FAA provided pilot license?

Vor 16 Tage
Vinod Menon
Vinod Menon

Very informative, thanks for the video 👍🏻

Vor 17 Tage
ExpertAviator
ExpertAviator

You are more than welcome. I am glad found value in the video.

Vor 16 Tage
Vinod Menon
Vinod Menon

If ATC gives you a number to call a) tell them you don't have a pen and paper to take down the number b) tell them you don't have either sufficient balance on your phone or you don't have International roaming enabled . c) tell them outgoing is barred on your phone number d) if you are an American cite your 5th amendment right against calling and possibly saying something thereby incriminating yourself e) tell them you live in a free country and no one can force you to do something f) pretend you are having radio interference issues g) if you are not American or English start speaking in a foreign language. h) call and disconnect immidieatly I) give them your number and ask them to call you. Yes , you guys and gals are welcome 😂😁😉

Vor 17 Tage
RhodieFreedomCamp
RhodieFreedomCamp

Sadly the NHS (UK) STILL doesn't tolerate staff raising serious organisational safety concerns. The NHS should learn from this safety culture.

Vor 18 Tage
Kevin J. Dildonik
Kevin J. Dildonik

A: Yes. It's terrifying reading some people in the comments who are acting like, "I can't believe some highly trained professional wanted me to CALL A PHONE NUMBER just because I was hurtling toward a populated area at 150mph and possibly endangering hundreds of lives." ... Jesus Christ dude flying is a privilege. They can and will revoke that privilege if you're unsafe. That's all this is about. Were you unsafe? Then you shouldn't be flying. Were you safe and this is a misunderstanding? Then we should get an official report of what happened to make the process smoother for other pilots in future. It's not hard. One guy was like, "these absolute monsters had me worried because my transponder was half functional". Again, by the power of the baby Jesus Christ dude, the transponder is one of the most important pieces of equipment on a plane. That would be like busting a cop's balls when your number place was half covered. Yeah, they're going to hassle you. That's literally their job. That's how this works. Quit being a douche and get in compliance. FFS. One guy was like, "if you're lucky they don't pick up". By Odin's toenails bro, contact them again and sort this out. Even if it's a trigger-happy person in tower hassling pilots, that guy needs to be documented. Sometimes there are unsafe controllers, and because nobody follows up, the guy doesn't get fired. You need to play your part in this. FFS.

Vor 19 Tage
NoOneOfConsequence
NoOneOfConsequence

Too many effing advertisements interrupting an otherwise fantastic training video. 5 adverts in 20 minutes? Really? I know, ADBLOCK - but I hate to use that... but on this channel? Yes.

Vor 26 Tage
ExpertAviator
ExpertAviator

I understand. We are trying to raise money through Patreon so we don't have to run ads. Please visit https://www.patreon.com/ValeriAviation

Vor 24 Tage
Jerry Butler
Jerry Butler

I would call in out of courtesy to check things out.

Vor Monat
mtnairpilot
mtnairpilot

They are now required to say “possible pilot deviation” when providing the number if in fact they believe there was one, so you aren’t going to have any doubt about the nature of the call.

Vor Monat
Jeremy Perry
Jeremy Perry

Adsb is a tracking device, and everyone bit off on it

Vor Monat
Timothy Wallace
Timothy Wallace

A good defense is to immediately call and explain your temporary insanity.

Vor Monat
Brian Engelhardt
Brian Engelhardt

I filed an ASRS once when my engine failed on my first solo - that filing ended up saving me from my flight school. The flight school became convinced that the engine failure was my fault, but the report I submitted to ASRS didn't match with their interpretation of events. That got the maintenance department to dig further, and discover that the fuel selector was faulty and subject to popping out of detent, effectively cutting off fuel.

Vor Monat
Brian Casey
Brian Casey

Unless you have ADS out , turned on, don’t call them. They can’t even prove it’s your plane, anyone could have used your Nnumber. It would be their responsibility to prove it was you. If you call, that proves it was you. This is why the want you to call, rather than just tell you on the radio.

Vor Monat
robert37042Tn
robert37042Tn

Way back, I would occasionally fly an 84 280zx as an unlicensed pilot in an an unregistered aircraft. Never got a call from ATC. Darn it.

Vor Monat
Stephen McCreery
Stephen McCreery

Its better 2 fix things with atc then havin 2 deal with the faa

Vor Monat
J.P.
J.P.

Let me tell you about the "Sky Karens" out there that monitor adsb for part 103 operators that are being conscientious and *do* run adsb in/out...

Vor Monat
M Smithy
M Smithy

Sky Karens, lmao!

Vor Monat
Colton Blumhagen
Colton Blumhagen

From what I know of the FAA, they do not operate like law enforcement. They aren't there to trick you into admitting guilt, or something you didn't do, you don't need a lawyer to navigate talking with them. If you work with them they are actually going to work with you. It's not a you vs them thing.

Vor Monat
Bob Holliston
Bob Holliston

A long time, high hour pilot told me that if the FAA tries to get in touch with you DO NOT RESPOND! He said after awhile they'll probably forget about whatever the problem was. Speaking of the FAA having their shit together, I got a call from them last year wanting to know why I busted airspace in TN, I think. I live in WA. and have never been in TN. The N number they had was on a plane I sold 20 years ago and has gone through 4-5 owners, but still had my name as builder of that Long EZ. The guy asked me who I sold it to and I told them. He didn't ask me if I knew who owned it now so I didn't have to lie and say no.

Vor Monat
Sebastian Contreras
Sebastian Contreras

ATC: *sigh* Possible pilot deviation, I have a number for you.

Vor Monat
MRxMADHATTER
MRxMADHATTER

The FAA is a very understaffed and underfunded admin. They tend to try and solve things the easiest way possible. They only go loud when someone acts like a fool or the individual leaves themselves vulnerable to being violated. If you did something wrong and you know it, but they don't say anything about it, you're probably safe. But don't ignore them if they say something. That tells them that you are and are going to be a problem for them. So that's when they say "Lets get rid of this problem before it takes up any more of our limited resources." And they drop the hammer on you.

Vor Monat
Danny Creech
Danny Creech

As someone who has had to call the tower/approach control I do recommend to call and understand what ATC is telling you. FAA is a good group of people/pilots if is was just a mistake and you have learned from it then they normally will either talk to you or give you some training. Be honest and they will go easy on you. Lie, and then will put the hammer down.

Vor Monat
Kim Wilson
Kim Wilson

As a rule of thumb, if there IS a problem, ignoring the issue won't make it go away. In general the sooner you deal with an issue the easier it is.

Vor Monat
Sparky
Sparky

That function gets abused sometimes. Potomac TRACON had me stressed for 2 hours over an IFR transponder that was reading a single digit incorrectly (set correctly - signalling wrong) - this was described by the App Controller as "possible pilot deviation". Landed, called, then got pissed later. "Just so ya know - we're not gonna do anything about it" said the asshole on the phone

Vor Monat
John Sergeant
John Sergeant

I wasn't flying, I was travelling!

Vor Monat
Seether
Seether

Ha! Got’em!

Vor 9 Tage
Danny F
Danny F

ROFL

Vor Monat
Tech Gorilla
Tech Gorilla

There wasn't a thing that was 1080p about this broadcast unless the 'p' was for Potato.

Vor Monat
jroar123
jroar123

I’m no pilot but isn’t there a electronic record kept by both ATC FAA and the pilot? Isn’t there a program to electronically to generate and file a NASA?

Vor Monat
Pro America wake up America
Pro America wake up America

Just like with the POLICE 90% of.people talk themselves into a arrest and jail. Only give basic info keep it short keepnitnsime is what I did. Cause as a PILOT you better know what your doing a excuse you didnt know isn't gonna cut it

Vor Monat
Pro America wake up America
Pro America wake up America

Usually it's not good. Like a cop. You never talk to the police without a attorney. The ATC OR FAA ??? I had thus issue once

Vor Monat
flightcompany
flightcompany

I usually call the number and give them the news that I'm off the market and am happy in love with my girlfriend but am very flattered that they gave me their number to call.

Vor Monat
Al Je
Al Je

There was an airline pilot who said he would defer this to his chief pilot and union rep, especially if they don't really know what they exactly did wrong. They'll sort it out in a 3 way call between the 3 parties.

Vor Monat
Al Je
Al Je

@Dan Jacobson dude, I'm not going to get in an argument over this. I wasn't there and if the Captain felt it was prudent to get the chief involved then maybe he felt there was a good reason, maybe he's lucky enough his chief isn't a scumbag.

Vor Monat
Dan Jacobson
Dan Jacobson

@Al Je Al. The way you are defending the concept of calling the Chief Pilot, I’m beginning to think that you might be the Chief Pilot in question. For any airline pilots who might be reading this, terrible idea. Do not, I repeat, do not call your chief pilot for help with a potential FAA violation. Even if your Chief pilot is a great guy named Al Je.

Vor Monat
Al Je
Al Je

@Dan Jacobson maybe his chief actually is a decent one I don't know. From the vibe I'm getting is if it's a minor issue go ahead and call but if you don't know why or think you might hang yourself in that call then defer to some help. In the airline's case the union, in GA's case an AOPA lawyer will give advice if you are a member.

Vor Monat
Dan Jacobson
Dan Jacobson

@Al Je Al, my point is that his Chief Pilot is not there to back him up. His Union is. Any airline pilot that turns to his chief pilot for help, is not long for the industry.

Vor Monat
Al Je
Al Je

@Dan Jacobson he said if and the big if is if the FAA wants to violate him based on what's said on that recorded phone line he wants to have his union and chief back him up. I'd assume the ASAP report would be filed by then but maybe it won't be of substance if the crew is unsure of what exactly happened. Maybe the crew screwed up big or the controller screwed up big without realizing it thinking the pilots were at fault.

Vor Monat
herman lantz
herman lantz

When wearing the pilot hat we all want to be safety conscious and comply and make the call. As an attorney, this answer is not that simple. If you can readily be identified as the pilot, make the call, but just listen and don’t admit to anything. (Example: if you filed a flight plan and they have your name then they can put you in the seat) On the other hand, if they can’t easily put you in the left seat, I’d probably advise you not to call. Last legal seminar I attended at Oshkosh on this issue, two retired controllers said in most cases if you don’t make the call that’s the end of it. You call and identify yourself, you’ve just established the first element of your enforcement action. Most pilots are compliant folks, therefore, you will not just listen but also talk if you do call and admit to one or more elements that can be used against you. I call it the right to remain silent, but not the ability. So, call your attorney first.

Vor Monat
vashisl33t
vashisl33t

That is the best advice call your attorney FIRST and if the attorney is willing I would even have them listen in on the call on 3 way that way they can tell you to shut up when you might incriminate yourself your best bet would be to call an aviation attorney.

Vor Monat
Colt10mm Security
Colt10mm Security

One thing not stated in this video.... if you file a NASA report and it’s actually used for your benefit as in a defense, you may NOT use another NASA report to save your bacon for 5 years. Sure you can file them, but they won’t be used to “protect you” against a bad mark on your certificate record from five years from your last one that was used. So be careful flying.

Vor Monat
Colt10mm Security
Colt10mm Security

@Sky Pilot “3. The person has not been found in any prior FAA enforcement action to have committed a violation of 49 U.S.C. subtitle VII, or any regulation promulgated there for a period of 5 years prior to the date of occurrence;...” https://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/overview/immunity.html Get wrecked sky pilot.

Vor Monat
Sky Pilot
Sky Pilot

Not true.

Vor Monat
Colt10mm Security
Colt10mm Security

Come on, the question about being incapacitated and not able to file a NASA report was lame. It’s called common sense bro. Use it.

Vor Monat
Colt10mm Security
Colt10mm Security

I’ve always wanted to say to this one a-hole controller (aka: “Todd” at KLGB), “hey, prepare to copy MY number for possible CONTROLLER DEVIATION!”

Vor Monat
Colt10mm Security
Colt10mm Security

@Jacob I don’t think so as far as ATC recordings go. But... Todd did make it on the show “who wants to be a millionaire.” He only made it to like the 3rd question if memory serves me correctly. All of us at the airport died laughing when he failed the show for a rather simple question, that even my 12 year old (at the time), knew the answer. Tower Todd retired about 5 years ago from KLGB. He tried to transfer to the airport in Maui to work the tower his last few years. An ATC supervisor I met once at LAX told me that Todd had such a horrible reputation amongst not only pilots but fellow controllers as well. Anyway his reputation preceded him and Maui Tower turned down his transfer request to work there. Now that’s bad! He was beyond “angry” and smug when working in the pressure cooker. He couldn’t control his anger management and many seasoned airline pilots and GA pilots would clown him back. It was the best entertainment on tower frequencies ever! I even had a pilot I met in Ft. Lauderdale once ask me if “Todd” was still at KLGB, when he found out I flew out of there regularly. He was known by many. Picture the complete opposite of Kennedy-Steve and with the uncontrollable temper of a spitting cobra. The only time he wasn’t funny was when he stressed out student pilots. The things people wanted to do to him through the microphone, yet can’t be talked about here due to YouTube speech police. 🤐

Vor Monat
Jacob
Jacob

@Colt10mm Security any videos of tower todd online? im on the opposite side of the country but want to see what the hype is about

Vor Monat
Colt10mm Security
Colt10mm Security

@DataToTheZero HA! Another fellow pilot that remembers “Tower-Todd!” Man was he the worst! I remember a UPS pilot getting into with him once because the pilots didn’t repeat back the word “Heavy” after his call sign. It was a hilarious exchange between the two and the pilot was just clowning Tower-Todd. Another time, Todd asked if I had “Foxtrot” as I was inbound to land. I said, “negative, I’m too busy (alternator went out) and don’t have time to get the ATIS. So he told me to “remain clear of the Delta until I had Foxtrot.” I said, “unable, confirm clear to land 25R because I’m about to lose all electrical power.” He was so angry that he had to read me the current ATIS and that I wasn’t about to remain clear of the Delta. Good times.

Vor Monat
DataToTheZero
DataToTheZero

Todd is a name that will live in infamy to all pilots who've ever had the displeasure of dealing with him.

Vor Monat
Colt10mm Security
Colt10mm Security

Calling the number is one thing. Putting down something on your application in which the FAA already told you, “this is a nothing issue and won’t go on your record,” is called “throwing up on yourself.” Never admit guilt, especially since a “judge” (the FAA investigator in this case) already told you he squashed the case. That’s just dumb to report a “nothing burger.”

Vor Monat
Mega Davis
Mega Davis

Call, but make it collect.

Vor Monat
Bob
Bob

Ya no . The f.a.a can suck it ... never call... stop giving away your freedom to stupid government agencies ...

Vor Monat
vaaanilla
vaaanilla

Your freedom? Lmao... you’re one of *those* people. Yeah, as if you’re not in their airspace and have to conform to their set of rules 🙄. If you can’t handle that, then maybe flying isn’t for you.

Vor Monat
Nick Gresla
Nick Gresla

I’m gonna take a wild guess and say this is related to pilot deviations

Vor Monat
Diamond Doors Inc
Diamond Doors Inc

Just watched this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HzTa-qOPZo&t=795s . Pilot tells a story about his experience getting a number. Great watch.

Vor Monat
Andrew Barnes
Andrew Barnes

Honest and respectful. Good way to go in life!

Vor Monat
WhisperJet America
WhisperJet America

I called and won 50 gallons of Jet-A. So there!

Vor Monat
Thomas Sheehan
Thomas Sheehan

Hate A frequency change with an area code in front of it!

Vor Monat
ParadigmUnkn0wn
ParadigmUnkn0wn

Step 1: File NASA report Step 2: Call and be polite; never be arrogant Step 3: Continue to enjoy flying!!!

Vor Monat
J-Dub
J-Dub

I’m not a pilot but this sounds like sound advice.

Vor Monat
Charles Craft
Charles Craft

ATC here. 1. We have mando things we have to report. If you call or not, the report will be made with your Tail number any way so why not call? 2. ATC are not the police. We want to share the safety culture and simply figure what happened. Either explain a rule on the ATC side like how atc NEEDS runway read back. We also gather as much info as we can because of their is a systemic air space or procedure issue, it can be fixed. 3. FSDO doesn’t go after one time errors, it really has to be a many many many times issue with a pilot just refusing to learn and is overly dangerous that gets in trouble. Calling the tower should never be a scary thing. We’re not here to chastise you. Simply a conversation on what happened. 4. Possible pilot deviation, there have been times we’ve cleared you to land 16 Right. You land the left, we have you call, by the time you taxi in and we pulled the tapes, we apologize because we actually cleared you the left. We’re all humans who want everyone to go home safe everyday, that’s all.

Vor Monat
Charles Craft
Charles Craft

@AVFAN of course. Only thing I’ll add, in the last 6 months or so, they now make us click a check if the pilot called or not. If you do get a FSDO call with “was the brasher issued” yes “did the pilot call” no is on there, probably not a good way to start that talk. Edit. When covid restrictions lift, take a tour of your local tower and when there ask to see the list for MORs and how they get filed.

Vor 19 Tage
AVFAN
AVFAN

@Charles Craft Thanks Charles. Honestly, not trying to split hairs or argue, I agree with your POV whole heartedly. Just making a statement as to the purpose of the call - In the end just because a pilot calls doesn’t necessarily generate a get out of jail free card. You reiterated that point in a much more elegant manner. No doubt by your description it is a sensible approach but opposite to that approach if the FISDO wanted to investigate there would be an opportunity to hear the pilot side anyway. Again this is hairsplitting and frankly I would follow your guidance. In your description, those type of pilots seem more habitual offenders in nature (thinking of the Dude that busted and would not leave the Vegas BRAVO) and frankly scare the hell out of me. Thank you for responding. Again pretty sound advice on your part

Vor 19 Tage
Charles Craft
Charles Craft

@AVFAN Apple and oranges my friend. A police officers job is to enforce the law. ATCs job is to keep you alive to go home to your friends and family. When a cop pulls you over, 9/10 you’re getting a ticket, he’s enforcing the law you broke. When atc has you call, yes we “have” to file a report. Even when we file, 9/10, you’re not going to hear anything about it. FSDO goes for the top 3% worst offenses as they don’t have time to go after every report. It also creates a paper trail. You come through a Delta once thinking it’s closed and don’t call, when it’s dead, nothings really going to happen. You do it enough I remember your callsign off ADSB, I call you on tower, CTAF, Guard and you don’t answer when I’m using ADSB for your callsign and you refuse to call me? You cross my delta not calling and I’m busy and moving planes all over for you, well, a reports going to be made, and that paper trail will be started. Everyone makes mistakes, we get a chance to explain procedures that are unique to the area a pilot may not be aware of, a rule ATC has to use a pilot may not be aware of, and a chance to just talk it out to keep people safe. It also gives the pilot a chance to say what was going on for them for our report, otherwise it’s just ATCs perspective on what happened. Maybe you had bleed over, squelch, some other distraction that we can add to the report to simply make the system Safer by fixing those things. These calls and reports are informational in nature, not to investigate. It is up to FSDO with what they want to do with the info.

Vor 19 Tage
AVFAN
AVFAN

If there are issues of which reporting are mandatory, then there is no purpose in speaking with the pilot other than to collect evidence. It’s the same reason a police officer walks up to your car after he pulls you over and asks you if you know why he pulled you over: the intention is to collect a confession. I’m not against calling, but this thread and most of the comments are all theoretical. The fact of the matter is a safety violation was observed by ATC, it makes no sense that they have any discretion on whether to report it or not report it and if that discretion exists, now we’re dealing with personalities and politeness as it contributes to safety. That’s an unsafe practice in itself!

Vor 19 Tage
Charles Craft
Charles Craft

@John we have ATSAP like the pilot atsa or whatever your abbreviation is. We also do systemic reviews of the situations, reports get posted nation wide to learn from. Just like pilots, if it happens a lot or a super bad infraction, certifications are taken away and more training is required or removal of position. ATC is a highly vetted job, and while human error does happen on both ends of the mic, it’s no longer the days of old where you mess up twice and fired.

Vor Monat
Daniel Rehn
Daniel Rehn

Why would ATC have to GIVE you a number to call? Don't they have their phone numbers published over there in FAA-Land? And don't you as pilots always make sure to have the phone number to any ATC unit you're likely to contact noted on you operational flight plan, as a precaution in case of coms failure if nothing else? Why don't they just ask you to call them, and maybe ask if you have the number just to make sure? Prior Planing and all that... If ATC said they'd give me a number, I'd reply -No need to, I have it, I'll give you call.

Vor Monat
Shane Sundet
Shane Sundet

Skip the first 1:45 of the video unless you want to hear them ask the question of the video a bunch of times.

Vor Monat
Sigurd Torvaldsson
Sigurd Torvaldsson

But if ATC gives you a number to call, should you make that call?

Vor 3 Tage
John Forsythe
John Forsythe

is there a time limit on when the FAA can take action against you?

Vor Monat
Christian Pezalla
Christian Pezalla

The FAA generally applies a 6-month stale complain rule. If an investigation into an incident is not started within 6-months, the FAA will most likely decline to prosecute. Note, only the investigation needs to be started within 6-months. Once an investigation is opened, the FAA can take its time bringing any legal actions.

Vor Monat
Tom
Tom

It’s all fun and games and until you get that letter in the mail from the FAA stating they are investigating with possible pilot certificate action. Then they check the ATC tapes and gather your confession. I can count on any given day how many times controllers make mistakes and see 0 repercussions. Maybe I’ll start giving them my number.

Vor Monat
John
John

In fairness, I think any repercussions for ATCs aren't as publicly vetted. I've really only heard one ATC conversation where a pilot said that they're going to report the ATC. Conversely, any post of an ATC interaction which includes a possible pilot deviation are advertised as such and those of us who listen to such videos are drawn to them. But I agree with you, I wish I heard more scolding of ATCs by pilots with some sort "they're gonna get busted" moment. As always, the government has the upper hand against the citizens and operates with a certain degree of impunity when harassing us.

Vor Monat
That Guy
That Guy

This is one where I would say it depends on what you did. If you did something on purpose and it was against some regulation...you might want to contact an attorney and have him call.

Vor Monat
farLander
farLander

Well if you intentionally break regulation an attorney isn't going to help you much...

Vor Monat
Tim Mummert
Tim Mummert

YES

Vor 2 Monate
robinmyman
robinmyman

When a certain old film star lands on a taxi way...he could loose his licence.

Vor 2 Monate
cbs645
cbs645

Sure, recorded confessions are always a great idea. 🤦‍♂️

Vor 2 Monate
Bart Foster
Bart Foster

Aren't all the radio transmissions with ATC recorded? It is a little late to worry about being recorded at that point.

Vor Monat
cbs645
cbs645

@Nick Gresla 😂🤦‍♂️

Vor Monat
Nick Gresla
Nick Gresla

Harrison Ford: “I’m the shmuck that landed at Charlie”

Vor Monat
acdii
acdii

You call the number and get, Hi, We have been trying to reach you about your auto warranty.

Vor 2 Monate
Jason Roach
Jason Roach

No you do not HAVE to call, but a compliance oriented attitude goes further than an adversarial one.

Vor 2 Monate
S/V Second Chance Sailing
S/V Second Chance Sailing

I had a incident on my solo flight. I did the 1st 2 solos with no problem but the 3rd one we had a new controller and she cleaned me #2 to land to a twin 2 miles out. I looked at two miles and no joy. The jet was about 8 to 10 miles out. Now she did not won't to rush me but I only had 1.5 hr. In the air and had never done a straight in approach. Now I had been flying all my life and had flown for years but when I passed the jet I was out of the airports air space and had to come back into the air space and land on a straight in over the water. It was a small airport in st Pete fl. Called Albert waited airport. I had to do a straight in on 36 over the water with no reference points it was fun. The instructor was pised off and we taxied over to the tower and he went off on her. I get why she did it but if I did not have the experience of flying all my young life I would not have made it in on a straight in approach like that. But I did and all was ok. All my instructor could do was yell and scream. I hope there is a way to relay info on the other side and report them when they mess up as well.

Vor 2 Monate
S/V Second Chance Sailing
S/V Second Chance Sailing

@Zach Schaneberger thats what she thought she was doing she knew I was a student pilot. Now I know what i was doing and I just held altitude till I had the field maid and slipped it in. But if someone else was there it would have been a big deal and the instructor was pist he was on the ground at the end of the runway and he sees me go from 800 to 1500 and fly away he was pist off. Runway 36 at Albert waited is 100% out over water its like landing on a aircraft caviar its fun.

Vor Monat
Zach Schaneberger
Zach Schaneberger

Just say “student pilot, unable” if you’re uncomfortable doing something and they’ll get you reworked. It’s important to let ATC know you’re a student they’ll take extra precautions to make sure you have a safe enough bubble around you. They can’t know the flight experience level of every pilot in the air.

Vor Monat
Brian
Brian

Brasher warning. Must you call vs. should you call. The answer is- call! I’ve not ever seen (within my facilities airspace) someone who called, listened intently and worked to ensure the situation was resolved, actually violated for anything. Be respectful, and listen. Mistakes happen. Your example of busting an altitude is the most severe I’ve seen anything happen to a private pilot. It’s almost never a big deal (unless there was a significant incident eg. Near miss or worse). Just don’t be a jerk- even if ATC is. (Yes, I work with a few people who are a bit more hard nosed than is necessary) but for the most part, we want to be able to simply put in our report that, “the pilot was talked to, and the situation was resolved.” Done and done. If we actually need to violate you, there is all kinds of paperwork and investigation nonsense that we need to do on our side. I REALLY don’t want to do any of that if I don’t have to.

Vor 2 Monate
Austin Farley
Austin Farley

"...paperwork and investigation nonsense that we need to do on our side. I REALLY don’t want to do any of that if I don’t have to." IT Guy here, Same in my world, Please for the love of god don't make do anymore work than I already have to do.

Vor Monat
Steven Phillips
Steven Phillips

There is no debate! Not sure where you get your schooling from however if there is a problem it is left up to them, as in the FAA, defined out who you are. Point blank There is no in our repeat no legal requirement for you to call. Let me suggest that you go back and get some more education young man because apparently you don’t have a clue! Show me the law where it says you have to call.

Vor 2 Monate
David McArthur
David McArthur

​Lol ...I wonder if your read backs to a controller are as accurate as your understanding of what was said in this video :)

Vor Monat
Gary XHLC
Gary XHLC

So, your standpoint is, "It's not absolutely required, I don't do it"? Fine. But there IS a debate to be had. "Is calling _advisable?_ " Do you make the FAA, with plenty enough on its plate already, waste their resources hunting your ass down for some probably minor deal? That sort of thing annoys bureaucrats, and trust me, you want to avoid annoying bureaucrats; they have ways to get even. Now, maybe if you're guilty as fuck, like the Vegas Bravo Buster, or the guy that RA'd an Airbus, avoidance is a decent strategy, until you get a lawyer. If you made an honest mistake, for the cost of a phone call (practically free nowadays), you can get yourself some goodwill with those bureaucrats by being proactive and working it out.

Vor Monat
afd822emtp
afd822emtp

My favorite part of this comment is the condescending “young man” while being completely wrong about what he said.

Vor 2 Monate
Rob Ryan
Rob Ryan

Did you even listen? He unequivocally stated that there’s no legal requirement to call. He so stated more than once.

Vor 2 Monate
SomeShitName
SomeShitName

he said there no legal requirement for you to call lol

Vor 2 Monate
Steven Phillips
Steven Phillips

You are not required to call.

Vor 2 Monate
Patrick Ziemann-Gimmel
Patrick Ziemann-Gimmel

Very good info - Thank you!

Vor 2 Monate
Lee Takamiya
Lee Takamiya

Outrageous

Vor 2 Monate
American Airlines Virtual Pilot
American Airlines Virtual Pilot

Yes but hope the number is disconnected

Vor 3 Monate
ETOPS
ETOPS

If you value your license, you call the tower. If you value your time, you move on other content. If you found this valuable, I might suggest “Oxygen, is it relevant? Let’s debate.”

Vor 4 Monate
Steve Carter
Steve Carter

It's hugely encouraging for me that pilots talk more like engineers than bureaucrats. This kind of candid openness gets rare in middle management.

Vor 4 Monate
Cody Griggs
Cody Griggs

As a controller I had to click on this video just for the title alone haha... I had know clue that this was actually a question for you flyers. From my side of the mic I can tell you if you hear the phraseology “possible pilot deviation” and you then choose to not call I would say you are going to get written up 99% of the time the remaining 1% you get lucky and we forget. However if you do call and act like a professional there is a chance that the controller deems the safety issue resolved and doesn’t proceed with the paperwork. Possible pilot deviation is what your listening for to know your in trouble. Anything else isn’t standard phraseology and your probably not wrong in not calling but you aren’t helping the “team”. I can also assure you that controllers get intense scrutiny from all sides in terms of mistakes. Not only do we get quarterly audits on time spent controlling we are also monitored by people in the faa who’s soul job is to watch radar feeds and request audio tapes for discrepancies. I have never liked writing anyone up however new procedures and operating guidelines have left us with less opportunities to let things go. The conversation y’all had is definitely an eye opener for me and was a good laugh. Good flight gents.

Vor 5 Monate
Bassfishin
Bassfishin

@Gringo Loco Controllers are not the sky cops, and in the absence of the words "possible pilot deviation" it MAY be in the best interest of your future as a pilot to make the call. As the video said (and the poster above), many times the phone number given out is to facilitate a dialogue to improve your operation or seek clarification. If something a pilot does causes an actual safety event (loss of separation, runway incursion, etc.), and it appears it is due to negligence or a violation, then the words "possible pilot deviation" will most likely be included in a transmission. If you intentionally violated a rule or if you may be in violation of the FARs, and you have some reason to fear a FSDO investigation, then perhaps your best bet is to contact a lawyer first. None of this is legal advice. I am just providing a perspective from the ATC side of the mic. ATC is not there to violate you, that's a whole 'nother part of the FAA. ATC is there to move planes in a safe and expeditious manner. Part of their job is to file a pilot deviation when it is observed. After that, it is out of their hands. While FSDO is under the same agency, it is completely different.

Vor Monat
Gringo Loco
Gringo Loco

Personally I would be very hesitant to call. It's basically a legal issue if there is a pilot deviation. Cops have to read miranda rights for a reason. As a controller you work for the FAA and it's recorded for legal purposes. There should at minimum be a third party that runs ATC. If the FAA wants a more open environment they need to create one.

Vor 2 Monate
ExpertAviator
ExpertAviator

Thanks for the input and interesting perspective.

Vor 5 Monate
D-DUB
D-DUB

I'm no pilot, but sometimes I go down the youtube rabbit hole and end up listening to a bunch of ATC transmissions. I've heard that 'possible pilot deviation' thing quite a few times, and I always wondered what that all amounted to. Thanks for sharing this!

Vor 7 Monate
Pro America wake up America
Pro America wake up America

@Paul Mohr yea. I have a app that I get police and fire and some ATC.

Vor 11 Stunden
Paul Mohr
Paul Mohr

VAS is a great channel. And yes you can listen to some of it online, just like police and fire for certain areas. Or if you have a scanner you can listen to your local airport live. I can pick up aircraft on my hand held if they are close.

Vor 20 Stunden
Pro America wake up America
Pro America wake up America

So many apps you can actually download air traffic control at any airport in the country its really cool I listen to SNA and others

Vor Monat
Prajwal Gyawali
Prajwal Gyawali

@ExpertAviator contents from VASAviation

Vor 4 Monate
ExpertAviator
ExpertAviator

Those are three words that really do get our attention as pilots. It is best to follow the advice of the attorney in this video. So what type of ATC communications do you listen to on YouTube?

Vor 7 Monate
Lizard6376
Lizard6376

Interesting discussion, thanks for exploring this topic.

Vor 8 Monate
Lizard6376
Lizard6376

@ExpertAviator Being a new pilot, I can confirm this is a fear of mine haha

Vor 8 Monate
ExpertAviator
ExpertAviator

Thanks. It can scare some when given a number to call, especially new pilots.

Vor 8 Monate
Susan Dingman
Susan Dingman

In reverse, when ATC commits an error (of any degree) affecting my flight, should I provide them with a number to call so we “can discuss the possible violation”? Not trying to be snotty, I’m serious here

Vor 11 Monate
Kevin J. Dildonik
Kevin J. Dildonik

Life fact: You'd be amazed how often people don't report dangerous authority figures. If a controller is being snotty and endangering pilots, YOU NEED TO FILE A REPORT NO MATTER WHAT ROADBLOCKS THE CONTROLLER THROWS YOUR WAY. Seriously think about it. "The number was busy?" If a controller is endangering lives, then handing out a fake number, that's scary as hell. Follow up, please! Get that documented, please!

Vor 19 Tage
SkylinesSuck
SkylinesSuck

If there was an error on the part of the controller, there are several computer systems that catch it and automatically report it up the chain. Then the controller "gets a call" after a day or two anyways. You aren't going to "catch" them by calling anymore than they already would be "caught." But if you want to call and discuss, by all means do so. As far as calling if given the Brasher warning, the only thing it can do is possibly get you OUT of trouble. If there is any room for discretion on the part of the controller, and you guys talk and they are satisfied everybody understands what happened and learns from it, it's probably finished at that point. You don't call? That report is getting filled.

Vor Monat
AFmedic6871
AFmedic6871

Many time while listening to ATC conversations I have heard where they messed up, got really snotty with the pilot and when the pilot asks for a number to call they (atc) refuses to give a number ... "too busy, no time for nonsense, etc. Ahhh The joys of having an ATC God-Complex.

Vor Monat
danmaardeze
danmaardeze

Perfect example when the pilot needs/wants some clarification: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMUJnFr99rY

Vor 2 Monate
ExpertAviator
ExpertAviator

Fast forward to our discussion concerning the reasons you should call. There is a good discussion for those concerned about calling the number provided by ATC.

Vor 4 Monate

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