Four Sources on Messer Combat

  • Am Vor 10 years

    MEMAGMEMAG

    Dauer: 5:31

    Talhoffer, Kal, Codex Wallerstein, Sigmund Emring
    *EDIT* The last technique should simply be a cutting off of the hand, without the initial parry.

vsk237
vsk237

It's much easier to understand in motion than from an illustration, in medieval German. Lots of takedowns and wrestling. This wasn't a noble's weapon, it was a average Joe's weapon, and it had no time for parlor tricks. If you can't land a blow to the head, close in and hip throw the fucker.

Vor 6 Tage
Coatl Tepetchia
Coatl  Tepetchia

Awesome video, congrats

Vor 7 Monate
Tony Napoli
Tony Napoli

Very impressive thank you 👍🇬🇧

Vor 9 Monate
Tony Napoli
Tony Napoli

Just subscribed 👍👌🇬🇧

Vor 9 Monate
Charles Rablin
Charles Rablin

The messer usually has a slight distance disadvantage, so its not surprising that the popular messer techniques feature ways of getting up close, for a grab, punch, chop or lethal parry.

Vor year
TheBeastWithin
TheBeastWithin

I may want to look at these treatises, I'm studying mainly out of Lecküchner

Vor year
hypnosiscoach
hypnosiscoach

Wow, very cool video! Thanks for sharing this. I see many similarities in these techniques with those I have trained in from the arts of Arnis, Kali, and Kuntaw, specifically the blocks and redirection of the weapon to a trap, strikes, throws, and sweeps. From what I've seen, the European martial arts have as much to offer as their eastern counterparts.

Vor 2 years
PhillipMargrave
PhillipMargrave

4:54 LIKE A BOSS!

Vor 3 years
Ian Hollier
Ian Hollier

Who made those messers?

Vor 3 years
Gabriel Olmedo
Gabriel Olmedo

I know: messers are just big sword-like knives, but I've seen that it looks a lot like a germanic saex knife, is there any connection?

Vor 3 years
Eric Moore
Eric Moore

Nice.

Vor 3 years
Shrekas 2
Shrekas 2

medieval 2 music

Vor 3 years
Canada Goose
Canada Goose

Impressive! Nice work.

Vor 3 years
Eric Herstead
Eric Herstead

how long are your blades

Vor 3 years
Andrew Carlson
Andrew Carlson

Eric Herstead most one-handed messers should come out to about the length of your arm.

Vor year
V - Pony
V - Pony

0:57 My favorite messer technique :) Also translates pretty well into saber, side sword, etc ^^ Pretty much any one handed sword, really (except really huge rapiers and the like).

Vor 4 years
Wolf FlamekindL
Wolf FlamekindL

does anyone know why the other hand is behind the back? is it for protection? or is it signifying something, like you only unleash your other hand when you're ready to end the fight?

Vor 4 years
micheal hoffstater
micheal hoffstater

I will say though, with sabre usually the off-hand is placed on the hip, not the back, related to posture and breathing support. In either case one of the main purposes is to keep the off-hand away from target zones. With daggers this is often reversed as (historical) dagger-fighting involved much grappling.

Vor 2 years
Wolf FlamekindL
Wolf FlamekindL

@Morgoth Bauglir thanks much!

Vor 4 years
twenty twenty
twenty twenty

+Wolf FlamekindL To stop it getting hit

Vor 4 years
chase.
chase.

0:50- Schisse, meine Hand. Und dann der Junge mit der Messer sagt: "Du bist ein blode Saur, und mein Messer habt geschlechtverken mit deine hand. Popo esser."

Vor 4 years
jomess7879
jomess7879

nice vids but i thought you were not supposed to block edge on edge.

Vor 4 years
Master Shannon
Master Shannon

jomess7879 If you practice or observe good FMA you will see many similar techniques with "binding" but without clashing of swords. It is my view, that since these people are recreating from codices, no one has taught them the subtle art of correct distancing. You will also note that they have not distinguished between a soft fluid at the parry and a hard stopping parry to the set up for the next move. Finally, logically a debilitating hard fast parry to the wrist bones is always preferable to steel on steel. Whereas steel on steel parry is a move of desperation or lack of skill.

Vor 2 years
SerAlgernop BlitzKrieger
SerAlgernop BlitzKrieger

Only with a katana, or other ridiculously hard steel weapons. Even then, your blade's going to get caught on all sorts of shit from armour, buttons and the like to bone, so you COULD stress about keeping your edge from chipping and rolling, or you could focus on not getting hit by the other guy. Incidentally, binding doesn't work unless it's edge on edge, because it's the two blades biting into each other that causes the bind haha

Vor 4 years
Ariovistvs
Ariovistvs

Nice Video! Where did you get your messer from? I am struggeling finding authentic + usable replicas on any manufacturer except albion swords. Can you racomment something else?  Kind Regards!

Vor 4 years
Samuel Duval
Samuel Duval

If you're European, you can look for Jiri Kondrak's ones or maybe Viktor Berbekucz. They are both renowned blade smith from the eastern part of Europe.

Vor 3 years
Gaston043
Gaston043

some of the moves look a bit like jiu jitsu moves.

Vor 5 years
Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo Baggins

Where'd ya get those messers?

Vor 5 years
VicariousReality7
VicariousReality7

A smith.

Vor 4 years
Mike C
Mike C

Great stuff guys!

Vor 5 years
Rogue de Hangest
Rogue de Hangest

What name of song at  0:01?

Vor 5 years
Hylian Berserker
Hylian Berserker

@MEMAG Can't seem to find it, Medieval War has it, but they are clearly not the same song.

Vor 4 years
Rogue de Hangest
Rogue de Hangest

@MEMAG Thanks you very much

Vor 5 years
MEMAG
MEMAG

Duke of Death.

Vor 5 years
Running Eagle
Running Eagle

Very nicely done.

Vor 5 years
Glitch
Glitch

I was wondering: Why didn't you show any visuals from Sigmund Emring's Fechtbuch? Were there none available or did you have to leave them out for some reason? I think it added a lot of credibility to the figures you've shown by also displaying your historical sources. Overall: Great vid! Grosse Messer are best messer!

Vor 5 years
MEMAG
MEMAG

That source is not illustrated. Thanks!

Vor 5 years
MEMAG
MEMAG

Correct. See my reply on our other messer video.

Vor 6 years
SoWeMeetAgain
SoWeMeetAgain

first source - the font used is not actually from germany in that time(145x), nor is the spelling or wording. btw I like how all the people depicted have a nice beer belly :D

Vor 6 years
Stuart McDermid
Stuart McDermid

Great vid chaps. People! If parries were supposed to be done with the flat then the quilions would go in the other direction. Swords (and particularly messers) were disposable items.

Vor 6 years
TimberwolfCY
TimberwolfCY

This is excellent, thanks a lot for this.

Vor 6 years
TimberwolfCY
TimberwolfCY

Indeed, assuming edge parries weren't used, a simple rotation of the weapon would provide for it. None of the techniques presented couldn't be reproduced with a "flat-parry." Further, the exact perpendicular flat need not be presented, only a enough of a rotation to negate the defender's edge being struck would be sufficient. After all, a proper parry isn't a direct block, it is a deflection.

Vor 6 years
Mike Loder
Mike Loder

Thanks. Well presented.

Vor 6 years
Laitharex
Laitharex

Thanks, my man!

Vor 6 years
MEMAG
MEMAG

Medieval II Total War Soundtrack "Amen"

Vor 6 years
Laitharex
Laitharex

Guys, What's the music that starts at 3:07?

Vor 6 years
altariongr
altariongr

I agree with you MEMAG

Vor 6 years
Alasdair Nicoll
Alasdair Nicoll

I'm inclined to agree with you - I can't see how half these plays would work without them.

Vor 7 years
MEMAG
MEMAG

Non-issue. ARMA does not believe edge-parries were used. We and many others believe that they were.

Vor 7 years
Alasdair Nicoll
Alasdair Nicoll

Question: according to ARMA, re: Codex Wallerstein, "As with other sources, once again no direct parrying (or any "edge blocking") is evident.". I'm not sure how some of these plays could work without a direct parry - I'm not sure whether we should be making more of an effort to parry with the flat, or whether it's a non-issue. Thoughts?

Vor 7 years
Dragon50275
Dragon50275

impressive stuff

Vor 7 years
E. Edsel Edsel
E. Edsel Edsel

I miss trying to smack people with swords. Thanks for posting this.

Vor 7 years
Whiskey and Steel
Whiskey and Steel

Well done. I've learned a few skills thanks to you.

Vor 7 years
robotminione
robotminione

I think one thing to keep in mind though is that even considering how much poorer people were in historical times, messers are a lot cheaper, lower-class weapons than a longsword. They're basically just machetes (even similar name...). Grid the edge back into shape and it's good to go, no precise masterful razor finish needed. So maybe not as much care was needed? Especially not at the at the cost of a life-saving parry?

Vor 7 years
elgostine
elgostine

looks very good. though i cant help but feel the way your recieving the strikes wouldnt be the best for the edge. after a couple of exchanges like them youd see a near saw toothed edge. particularly those static upper blocks.

Vor 8 years
BREN COL
BREN COL

Awesome video! Very well-informed demonstrations.

Vor 8 years
manga12
manga12

well its the way that the traditional clothing is used only in festivals, and by reenactors, or people that like to provoke a reaction by say wearing a huge codpiece or stockings too sizes too small. though i think some of the cloths from europ are interesting lederhosen for example, and those skirt things the greeks wear, as well as the baggy pants worn in greek dress dont look so manly but it is and has been for many centuries.

Vor 8 years
gre8
gre8

@Gonnakillyou Actually its from Medieval Total War II

Vor 8 years
ChishioAme
ChishioAme

@mailmanofdeth In most cases, you'd be correct, sadly. I'm unashamed to be a student of Bei Shaolin, but I also have a great interest in the messer, the longsword to some degree, and the Russian shashka, though I've found almost NO sources on the last one. More than credit, WMA doesn't really get the respect it deserves and I can only blame Hollywood for portraying it as two people banging their swords together with as much grace as a bull in a china shop.

Vor 9 years
mailmanofdeth
mailmanofdeth

it seems that European martial arts doesn't get the credit it deserves, everyone only cares about Asian styles,

Vor 9 years
Ranziel1
Ranziel1

@KissakiSan I see your point. I guess presenting European martial arts to the yet uneducated masses in a more appealing manner would only do good for the HEMA, as more followers equals quicker revitalization. I guess you're right, it's just annoying that it has to be advertised like that.

Vor 9 years
Ranziel1
Ranziel1

@KissakiSan Japanese, Chinese and others practice martial arts in national clothing. If others can't look past leggings of traditional European costumes, well... I guess they're just immature, so to hell with their opinions anyway.

Vor 9 years
ruebuscm
ruebuscm

Yowch! I don't know anything about messerfechten, but should the blades make that sort of perpendicular edge on edge contact? Makes me cringe a little!

Vor 9 years
ewbecht
ewbecht

Nice music choice.

Vor 9 years
grailchaser
grailchaser

Its refreshing to see someone get this right for a change. Most of the supposed disarms and binds I've seen on Youtube fail because of poor timing and a misunderstanding of Talhoffer's technique. Well done guys!

Vor 9 years
ChishioAme
ChishioAme

Excellent video! I've been mostly a Japanese/Chinese swordsman, but I've been wanting to get into medieval sword techniques and considered the longsword, but I prefer one handed swords, so it's best to play to my strengths and this made me really, really want to study the messer.

Vor 9 years
Aaron Mcneil
Aaron Mcneil

so much edge on edge sword play makes me cry a little inside. but i guess the way the Messer fit into society, they weren't too worried about preserving the blade

Vor 9 years
Aaron Mcneil
Aaron Mcneil

Katana ^ i just opened the pandora's box of youtube sword videos, prepare to have your comment section hijacked by a bunch of thirteen year old anime tards

Vor 9 years
FURIEREPAZZO
FURIEREPAZZO

@SirOwenCurunir I have a good messer (steel) from a Czech medieval armoury, if you want i can give you web address... contact me with a private message, i won't do public advertising :)

Vor 9 years
ranpleasant
ranpleasant

Overall I like this. However you have some serious edge-hacks in here. I wonder what damage was suffer by your blunts at 1.53, with thin sharp blades that would probably result in deep nicks that can't be filed out.

Vor 9 years
CenrionPrime
CenrionPrime

voll lustig die haben damals so geschrieben wie unsere nicht ganz so gebildeten 5 jaehrigen reden, sehr gute arbeit dieses video viele sachen kannte ich schon aber so manches auch nicht

Vor 9 years
George Sulea
George Sulea

This is FASCINATING; I've purchased a Grosse Messer recently and have some practice with iaido and some Japanese fencing in the past. This video is very clear and concise; thanks for the hard work:)

Vor 9 years

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