Are Aerospikes Better Than Bell Nozzles?

  • Am Vor year

    Everyday AstronautEveryday Astronaut

    Dauer: 1:01:31

    Timestamps:
    00:00 - Intro
    06:20 - How Nozzles Work
    16:00 - How Aerospikes Work
    19:55 - The Problems With Aerospikes
    32:50 - Comparing Aerospike Engines To Bell Engines
    41:30 - What The Experts Say
    51:35 - Future Aerospike Prospects
    54:00 - Summary
    Article version for easy reading and references - everydayastronaut.com/aerospikes
    Today we’re going to look at the history of aerospike engines, go over how nozzles work including things like overexpansion, underexpansion and even expansion ratios, we’ll look at the pros and cons of the aerospike, the physical limitations and problems, then we’ll compare the aerospike to some other traditional rocket engines.
    But that’s not all, I obtained never seen before photos and videos of some aerospikes, we’ll get opinions from some people who have actually worked with aerospike engines, look at some promising prospects and compelling concepts and by the end of the video we’ll hopefully know whether or not the holy grail of rocket engines is just waiting to be utilized or if aerospikes just simply aren’t worth it.
    Special thanks to @MartianDays on Twitter for the scale engine renders! - twitter.com/martiandays
    And also thanks to Charlie Garcia for helping me learn so much! - de-film.com/us/dragonrider66511
    --------------------------
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Paul McQueen Songwriters Across Australia
Paul McQueen Songwriters Across Australia

gee i enjoy your show.

Vor 18 Stunden
Galen Gris
Galen Gris

So short sum of the first 15 min of video is: Bigger isen't always better, it's how you use it that matters..

Vor Tag
Louis Füllgrabe
Louis Füllgrabe

Just put airintakes on a aerospike Boom Fixed.

Vor Tag
Larry Troy
Larry Troy

So the bell is the key... why not design a variable bell that changes shape for sea and space? An iris bell design appears to be the best for a single engine to be optimized for both, or did I miss something?

Vor Tag
Chronovore
Chronovore

The simple answer is complexity and proof of concept. It would add a ton of moving parts which increases the failure potential and it’s never been done before at full scale. It doesn’t make sense for a company to spend the money on R&D for something that may never work out.

Vor Tag
Gregory Araganto
Gregory Araganto

They are not for earth, they are for eve for small landers. =)

Vor Tag
Gregory Araganto
Gregory Araganto

That complexity is kinda like a internal combustion vs electric motor. Internal Combustion engines were born out of necessity are a wonder that they even work. But this days with my ebike that just replaced my car and my motorcycle they just gather dust, inefficient and slower, and expensive to fix. Even a electric car is way worse, but that is for a different reason.

Vor Tag
BoxedInGaming
BoxedInGaming

what about gong nozzles

Vor Tag
Rachel Guido
Rachel Guido

Before watching: jeez this is loooooooong After watching: that’s it? How can it end so fast?

Vor 2 Tage
Peter Redman
Peter Redman

Tim, Congratulations on your interesting and VERY articulate broadcast. It kept me interested to the very last moment! You have a very great talent for putting a very complex subject across, without it becoming too difficult to follow .Elon Musk, who I have great admiration for all he has achieved, and is doing has a great problem with this. So continued success with all you are doing, and thank you! Peter

Vor 3 Tage
Nofer Trunions
Nofer Trunions

Wow, thanks for the Dunning-Kruger Effect reference! I became acutely aware of this in high school. Two glaring occurrences were 1) How good a musician are you? and 2) How fast is your "hot" car? If D-K is left "untreated," (LOL) Acute Narcissism ensues! I was trying to find the Complete Curve which includes the onset of Dementia / Alzheimer's but it seems they have their own curve which goes back to birth. (Actually if you spliced the curves, that is what I would expect to see. LOL)

Vor 3 Tage
Hillary Amerman
Hillary Amerman

I've watched shorter videos than this that were a lot longer...

Vor 3 Tage
Noname Plsno
Noname Plsno

hurrdurr rotary detonation dual expander aerospike

Vor 4 Tage
michael WRIGHT
michael WRIGHT

KISS: keep it simple, stupid.

Vor 4 Tage
Club 6
Club 6

I kinda wonder why not just remove the bell of a traditional rocket nozzle. The outside air would form the walls of the “bell” and the expansion ratio would be perfect. Maybe this could work because when we put you finger a hose, it lacks a nozzle yet the water still flows at an increased velocity. Would this work?

Vor 4 Tage
Harvey Kelley
Harvey Kelley

"Huh, it's going to be difficult to summarise the aerospikes vs nozzles in a 1 minute video. Wait a second, it's a whole hour!" Serious props, this must have taken a huge amount of effort! The animations are really slick too, I always found it hard to explain the concept of how the "virtual bell" works with aerospikes

Vor 5 Tage
Space x. Nasa. songs
Space x. Nasa. songs

not surprised elon musk is his best friend just has him in his socials wouldnt be suprised if he calls elon homie or bff like he probably goes and hugs elon musk the amount of times he met him this is probably true

Vor 5 Tage
Heavygusto
Heavygusto

I'm not an aerospace engineer, but, couldn't you make a three-nozzle symmetrical aerospike?

Vor 5 Tage
James Oxford
James Oxford

if you have a pot of water at boiling. 100 deg C. If you pour the same volume of 50C water into the boiling pot, what is the final temperature. I'm not a rocket scientist, but I'd guess 75C, for no reason other than diffusion.

Vor 5 Tage
Lakario Davis
Lakario Davis

yep, I remember having nerdgasms from watching videos of the x-33 being developed when I was a kid. So many lost dreams back then and would have thought we would be much much farther than we are right now. but here we are almost 25yrs later. 😢. Honestly the only thing that makes me happy these days are Elon musks companies space x and tesla. Didn't know how much id be into semi-trucks and how much the industry needed a change until tesla. It feels so weird to see something so big move so fast with hardly any noise at all.

Vor 6 Tage
Spike Bender
Spike Bender

and the angle of the nozzle should be at 30deg.

Vor 6 Tage
Tony Martinez
Tony Martinez

ROCKETS ARE SO PRIMITIVE . THEY ARE FOR KIDS !

Vor 6 Tage
Chronovore
Chronovore

Lul let’s see you design and build one then.

Vor Tag
H. H.
H. H.

What if you suspended an aerospike within a rocket that looked more like the beginning a bell nozzle, so that the output of one, normal, cylindrical combustion chamber and throat could be redirected around an aerospike that would continue past the bell nozzle?

Vor 7 Tage
Minonian
Minonian

Obliviously... It's auto adjusting to the height and air pressure. So the craft don't need several engines and engine shapes. The problem is, when we talking about rockery, They have no experience with aerospike rocket engines.

Vor 7 Tage
H. H.
H. H.

I'm sure some will be used EVENTUALLY, though they may never replace bell nozzles.

Vor 7 Tage
Gerald Sarrasin
Gerald Sarrasin

I think we would be further ahead spending research money on a space elevator. More return for your money, and more environnementaly friendly...

Vor 8 Tage
Dave State-61
Dave State-61

I got laid w/that same line!

Vor 8 Tage
Paul
Paul

22:26 I can't believe he said that.

Vor 8 Tage
tulsatrash
tulsatrash

Thank you very much for making this I learned a lot, and so did the people I watched it with.

Vor 9 Tage
Anyoldion
Anyoldion

Now I understand why fighter jets have variable size nozzles, thanks.

Vor 9 Tage
Rahul Kapoor
Rahul Kapoor

Thanks EDA for a very thorough explanation of the nozzle working. To add and please correct me if I m wrong. In case of bell nozzle engines stage separation gives an advantage of nozzle change as well as mass dumping. As fuel depletes at various stages there is no need to carry empty fuel cans against the precious thrust. I am not sure how fuel pods be attached to aerospike rocket. Or it will look like challenger space shuttle. Big central fuel can with boosters to balance thrust. Will it matter? In single stage how will empty fuel pods be detached (if they will, it will mimic stage separation) or will it be additional weight to carry in space. Just curious ..

Vor 9 Tage
Lê

Yep... rocket science...

Vor 9 Tage
Dan
Dan

Ahhh Choking flo 1984

Vor 9 Tage
Tom Nisen
Tom Nisen

I've visited this place. Interesting!

Vor 9 Tage
KiTiTy
KiTiTy

aerospikestrips

Vor 10 Tage
John Wang
John Wang

Sounds like the narrow throat of the nozzle needs to be virtual itself much as the SR-71 uses the sonic shockwave of the spike in front of the jet engine to compress the air entering the engine. The other thing would be designing sound wave resonance to create a virtual throat, though I'd imagine there would be a lot of leakage. I suppose if it was a plasma engine, it could all be magnetic.

Vor 10 Tage
Void
Void

I'm pretty sure the *real* holy grail of rockets is nuclear rockets ... but i don't think anyone has to ask why we don't have any yet

Vor 10 Tage
solomanwill1
solomanwill1

"this is a really long video" Don´t be so modest Tim. This is not a video. This is a high quality documentary.

Vor 11 Tage
Darrick Hinrichs
Darrick Hinrichs

Dont steal comments

Vor 9 Tage
Steve Bentley
Steve Bentley

Always a great video. Good job guys!

Vor 11 Tage
Mateus Magno
Mateus Magno

Great video!!!

Vor 11 Tage
juan cuello espinosa
juan cuello espinosa

thrust to weight on the J-2S: niceeeee

Vor 11 Tage
Spam Spammy
Spam Spammy

Whichever one is bigger and louder is better. Easy choice.

Vor 12 Tage
Nicholas Andre
Nicholas Andre

Did you bleep him with quindar tones?

Vor 12 Tage
Ronie Casaljay
Ronie Casaljay

So it's always the same problem. INSECURITY AND ENVY DENIES OBVIOUS IMPROVEMENT OF ACTUAL TECHNOLOGY. See. The problem when bad people knows the answer to solve the problem. They don't want to solve the problem. That's the real problem. It's the same rocket engine only thing is it directs the power of the engine to a direction where it could produce more force. From your illustrations, the only thing that requires cooling is the nozzle and the surrounding area of the ignition path from the rocket engine. They should use that technology that they were using to contain heat in FUSSION POWER PLANTS. They're you said it your self. THEY HAVE A HIGHTECH ROCKET ENGINE WITH A TRADITIONAL/CONVENTIONAL COOLING SYSTEM.

Vor 12 Tage
Josh Hixson
Josh Hixson

I only like single stage rockets...I have separation anxiety.

Vor 13 Tage
Oumar Chendjouo
Oumar Chendjouo

Okey

Vor 13 Tage
Rob Johnson
Rob Johnson

Politicians have held back human advances for far too long.

Vor 13 Tage
William Wigley
William Wigley

Cool and informative

Vor 14 Tage
M R
M R

At 22:30 that’s some retarded thinking in an otherwise great video. How does your shower nozzle work, if too hot, does increasing colder water make it add heat? Honestly.

Vor 15 Tage
Gerald vlogs
Gerald vlogs

Welcome to puberty tim

Vor 15 Tage
Jimothy Blumberg
Jimothy Blumberg

In future we will go from our driveway, directly to space. And kids will have ridiculously long bells to see what kind of performance they get. They will post it to future youtube.. whatever neuralinkish thing that is.

Vor 16 Tage
Jimothy Blumberg
Jimothy Blumberg

What is todays equivalent? What did someone get bummed out that they would miss.. but I get to enjoy? Is there something that I would have looked forward to? I should find and focus on that

Vor 16 Tage
Jimothy Blumberg
Jimothy Blumberg

Thinking I will miss out on that bums me out

Vor 16 Tage
Taffybadger
Taffybadger

sod aerspke, SABRE is future

Vor 17 Tage
Mauri Barbero Merlini
Mauri Barbero Merlini

You are my space intellectual superhero

Vor 17 Tage
Shan Chipo
Shan Chipo

Weebs seeing this: we told u flat is justice

Vor 17 Tage
Diane Reid
Diane Reid

I've seen the video many times and it only gets better.

Vor 18 Tage
My Opinion Doesn't Matter
My Opinion Doesn't Matter

Sum up: 39:50, 44:58 & 45:55

Vor 18 Tage
gaming with mr panda 47
gaming with mr panda 47

e

Vor 18 Tage
Chelsea Overton
Chelsea Overton

As I'm getting to the end, I'm realizing this reminds me a lot of piston engines vs rotary engines. Rotary engines sound so cool, but they're just nowhere near where piston engines are EDIT: WOW, just as I'm getting to the end, the comparison is made!

Vor 18 Tage
Ralph Wagenet
Ralph Wagenet

First rate work; you obviously put a huge amount of effort into this, and it's greatly appreciated.

Vor 19 Tage
Ranjith Nair
Ranjith Nair

How does the volume flow rate decreases when when we partially close a shutoff valve but not when we just put our finger in front of the hose? 9:06

Vor 19 Tage
czarmangis
czarmangis

Hello wonderful person...

Vor 20 Tage
vrwhammer001
vrwhammer001

keep developing them to get the information that they can provide

Vor 20 Tage
William VergerWolf
William VergerWolf

I'm curious if advances in 3d printing (specifically of rocket components) could help reduce the complexity and weight of aerospike designs, allowing them to be more plausible.

Vor 20 Tage
Bradley Burdett
Bradley Burdett

Why : buffering and low data

Vor 20 Tage
John Holgate
John Holgate

This video has “propelled” me to a nerdier level of understanding.

Vor 22 Tage
Jerson Cristuta
Jerson Cristuta

we should award a "no-bell prize" for the first company to get one to orbit.

Vor 22 Tage
johannnes paul
johannnes paul

that is total bullshit you can optimise your bell !!!

Vor 22 Tage
Adam Britton
Adam Britton

Man I get to the end and do a double take when he bashes my RX7. I didn’t see that coming.

Vor 22 Tage
eric garner
eric garner

I think if the benefits of an aerospike were a little more advantageous we would put more effort into development, but I feel like simplicity and proven design are ultimately more favorable than efficiency in both space and at sea-level.

Vor 23 Tage
0623kaboom
0623kaboom

so after an hour of stuff the answer is aerospikes are better BUT you pay for that extra work with heat and complexity which increases costs substantially ...making them not worth the hassle ... in essence trying to make something that already works great better by adding more crap to it at 20x the cost for 2x the gain. ... in my books that makes them useless at current standards

Vor 23 Tage
steve stumpy
steve stumpy

Rockets are to inefficient, why not use electric motors instead?

Vor 23 Tage
steve stumpy
steve stumpy

@caav56 electric motors can propel spaceships efficiently then rockets plus they don't have to carry as much fuel.

Vor 16 Tage
caav56
caav56

The Launch Loop is an enormous construction, which'll take a lot of political will, land and money to be built.

Vor 16 Tage
NATURAL SPIRIT
NATURAL SPIRIT

The space shuttle program wasn't to have started till 1999 I was at Coco Beach Cape Caravel Space Center in 1970 NASA had the space shuttle on display there then said plans are for the first blast off on 1999 .They had a giant model of it outside and inside the building. .

Vor 23 Tage
Art Alagao
Art Alagao

I watched you go full nerd for a whole hour. You did an amazing job. I can't imagine how many nerd hours went into the making this documentary. Truly, self publishing has come of age. My hat is off to you.

Vor 23 Tage
Shaan Toor
Shaan Toor

we should award a "no-bell prize" for the first company to get one to orbit.

Vor 24 Tage
A Frog
A Frog

"ecksettra" isn`t a thing.. It`s "Et Cetera" If you can`t say that, just say "and so on"... Ecksettrah, eckspecially, nukilar...

Vor 24 Tage
NFSHeld
NFSHeld

Who would've thought, that a 1 hour video about rocket motors would receive around 2 million views?

Vor 24 Tage
Ese Callum
Ese Callum

JUST MAKE A VARIABLE APERTURE NOZZLE. SIMPLE.

Vor 24 Tage
László Zilahi
László Zilahi

I think that thrust/weight ratios are a little deceptive: Aerospike has a little heavier than bell nozzle engines, but a two stages rocket is carriing a whole engine as dead weight until stage separation, which can be effectively eliminated with an SSTO vehicle with aerospike engine.

Vor 24 Tage
László Zilahi
László Zilahi

@Everyday Astronaut For me, it seems aerospike could have help eliminate dead weight in a multistage configuration too, it could be used on the upper stage, but it could be started at launch with the engines of the first stage, so it could replace one of the engines of the first stage. It still mean one engine less for the whole rocket. (OK, SLS was alike configuration, but maybe it could be more efficient with aerospike.)

Vor 23 Tage
Everyday Astronaut
Everyday Astronaut

Not true. Due to the rocket equation, if you removed the upper stage and upper stage engine, you don’t lose mass, you’ll have to have a first stage that’s literally 5-10 times bigger to come close to the same performance. TWR still matters because of the weight of the engine. Having multiple chambers isn’t necessarily efficient in that manner

Vor 24 Tage
Adam Steiner
Adam Steiner

Aren’t the thrust to weigh ratios better than you say because the other engines would be on multiple stage rockets. So the overall additional weight would be less since you don’t need a second or even third stage?

Vor 24 Tage
Subhan Adhikary
Subhan Adhikary

Aerospike engine with Aerospike T-Shirt ❤️

Vor 25 Tage
Rooster & Guppy
Rooster & Guppy

To oversimplify the answer...., this is a fuel problem. The current energy density of fuels like lox just can't do it. If the muskox was going to the moon to mine a higher density fuel element like H3 or whatever then I would be fully behind his plan. Spece Tourism?????? I hope that dude has a better plan then that. Remeber the Boring Compnay...., WT hell happened top that brilliant idea????

Vor 25 Tage
dan roden
dan roden

starship has 6 engines - 3 for landing and 3 for space. if they could get rid of the space engines with aerospikes they would save 12,000 lbs in engines.

Vor 25 Tage
Internet Critic
Internet Critic

I can't write anything yet because I'm only at 20 minutes. I'll come back when I finish.

Vor 25 Tage
Jessie James
Jessie James

Yeah. Clear as mud . That's alot for my slow brain to work with...

Vor 26 Tage
Shrey Tiwari
Shrey Tiwari

Thanks for all the info

Vor 26 Tage
Shrey Tiwari
Shrey Tiwari

What's up with Raptor engine!! its crazy🔥🔥🔥

Vor 26 Tage
Mayhem Alldae
Mayhem Alldae

Ok I want to work with the "there's some stuff you CAN do" guy.

Vor 27 Tage
BRIAN CAM
BRIAN CAM

CHINA#1 WILL do aerospikes Elon Musk $$$$$$ Billionaire, thanks to $$$$$ 5 Billion in usa==weak and wimpy taxpayers dollars, will have his FAN BOYS make excuses.

Vor 27 Tage
Peter Griffin
Peter Griffin

I keep seeing Throat but I kinda think it should be called Anus instead, right?

Vor 27 Tage
BRIAN CAM
BRIAN CAM

Hey FAN BOYS of Musk $$$$$$$$ Billions == don't do Aerospike == Too difficult!!! Don't Do Nuclear Power usa = weak and wimpy too difficult. Make Elon Musk RICHER$$$$$$$ WITH $$$$$$$ 5 five BILLION IN USA tax subsidies richer$$$$

Vor 27 Tage
Forg0tin
Forg0tin

I've never notice tim has different color eyes pretty cool.

Vor 28 Tage
Sunhawk
Sunhawk

Aerospikes don't do anything well, but aren't terrible anywhere either. Don't really make sense for earth launches. Where you use multiple stages. Though of you were going to fly to the surface of a moon and back with a thick atmosphere, or dip into a gas giant and back out. Then it only be worth using.

Vor 28 Tage
Moorley's Racing
Moorley's Racing

Well you have to look at things slightly different. Elon musk and what he's doing with the Starship is quite hard, Heavy and BIG. Can we honestly say that with future endeavors everything we need or want out of life is achievable with a rocket engine/vertical body concept? I think not and I can think of many ways we need a different style where the Aerospike would be in my opinion a better option. ( I'm no scientist ). In Fact I think we can get far more efficient. You said it yourself, Companies like Desktop Metal & Mark Forged are creating amazing technology where we can print metals and even print high temperature metals. With how fast they're developing you can expect to see some BIG improvements in these sectors.

Vor 29 Tage
Kelkschiz
Kelkschiz

Today I learned that cool rocket engines run on cool fuel. Makes sense ^^

Vor 29 Tage
Stephen Burrows
Stephen Burrows

Nice bow tie Tim...

Vor 29 Tage
Gerald Wagner
Gerald Wagner

"because this is a really long video" * checks video length * oh

Vor Monat
Andrey G
Andrey G

Very informative video, but if aerospike engines are inferior to bell nozzle ones, the question is, why make this 1 hour video at all? Just curious...

Vor Monat
Everyday Astronaut
Everyday Astronaut

Because it’s a fascinating topic, a great vessel for learning and a lesson on why just because it might be better on paper doesn’t mean it’s better for the application 👍

Vor Monat
Henrique Cabeleira
Henrique Cabeleira

Great information ! Thanks Tim

Vor Monat
Eric Clausen
Eric Clausen

Listen up we I mean America is so far ahead of rocket engines it's sick we are allowed by the aliens to visit planets in our solar system.

Vor Monat
Hallah Gray
Hallah Gray

It seems to me that the advantage comes from simply reshaping the nozzle in regards to high and low pressure atmosphere. So I was thinking jets use variable nozzles and there has been some research in expandable nozzles why not take this route instead of a more complicated system.

Vor Monat
Black Devil STi
Black Devil STi

You should beep with NASA radio beep 😁

Vor Monat

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